Winchester model 70 trigger problems

16 December 2008, 06:28

I bought two model 70 winchesters this summer. They are both short actions and both chambered in 223 Remington. One is a rifle and the other is a carbine. The rifle has a serial no. of G19588XX and the carbine ia about 200,000 earlier. The problem is that we can't get the triggers tuned down to a reasonable pull. We have turned the spring tension down and polished all of the surfaces. What is happening is there is a considerable amount of creep and the safety does not want to engage. We have had good results on previous,earlier, rifles. Is there something different on the short actions or was the trigger changed on the later models. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

t

16 December 2008, 06:45

mstarling

They actually made two springs for the M70 ... a good one allowing 2.5 pound trigger pulls and a heavier one (probably to assuage their lawyers). Brownell's used to carry the lighter one. They list it as N/A now.

I simply swapped in the lighter spring on two rifles and the effect was magical ... right to where I wanted it to be.

If you got creep you need more than a spring I think.

16 December 2008, 06:47

shayneC

sinclair int. sells a Rifle basix drop-in trigger that solves all Winchester trigger woes.
Super easy to install yourself.
Shayne

16 December 2008, 07:54

DavidReed

The cocking piece to sear relationship is out of wack. In a nutshell the sear engagement isn't right and the cocking piece isn't moved back far enough when cocked. This is why the safety lever is difficult to operate. The process of fixing this is timing the safety. Mark Penrod is the only rifle smith I know of that will do this job without requiring a complete rifle build. He has done this jobe on all of my M70's and I couldn't be happier with the results. You'll crap your pants if you try a M70 trigger done by him.

16 December 2008, 08:13

doctorxring

.

I just installed this trigger in one of
my M70's. Perfect 2 lb trigger now.

quote:
Originally posted by shayneC:
sinclair int. sells a Rifle basix drop-in trigger that solves all Winchester trigger woes.
Super easy to install yourself.
Shayne

17 December 2008, 08:23

hta

I went to Sinclair Int, on the web, and did not find a listing for Winchester. There were listings for nearly every other manufacturer. Maybe they are out of them or something. Is there a difference between a Timney and the rifle basix trigger at Sinclair?

17 December 2008, 15:58

Masterifleman

I'll probably get in trouble for saying this but, the Model 70 trigger (not the new ones) is very simple and very good. The creep you are experiencing is due to the total engagement between the sear and the trigger bar. There is a "pad" there that is probably about .015" high and it should be .006", nothing less , and it should have a "rake" that tapers away from the sear contact point so that the sear will not drag on release. After that has been done, the trigger can be adjusted to break reliably at 2-2 1/2 lbs and completely safe. That trigger is made by the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method and is the best factory trigger ever. After the trigger is setup properly, the cocking piece safety cam will probably have to be cut back some to get the safety to engage. This has to be done very carefully because, if you cut it back to far, even if it engages, when you release the safety, it will fire. Best to be done by someone like Mark Penrod or at least by someone familiar and experienced. In my opinion, replacing the trigger is neither cost effective or to your advantage.

17 December 2008, 19:20

gunmaker

The M70 is one of the best hunting triggers out there. However, they are not built for adjustment by a novice. I don't recommend using a softer spring to lighten the trigger. Send it to a smith that's familiar with M70s. Since the sear/cocking piece connection is at an angle, very little trigger "adjustment" can change where the cocking piece sits in relation to the safety while in battery. If you get it done right the first time, you'll never want to replace the trigger with an after market part.

17 December 2008, 19:57

zimbabwe

I believe that a good smith with proper surface grinding equipment can regrind the proper angle and engagement on the surfaces necessary to give an outstanding pull. All of my Model 70's have been prepared this way. I beleiev this requires not only the proper knowledge but proper equipment,ie: surface grinder and appropiate vise, and cannot not really be done via hand stoning. I know of several good gunsmiths who can do this but unfortunately they are taking no new work at the time. Masterrifleman has it eaxactly right. I have never seen a more reliable or simpler trigger than an original Model 70 unless it was the original Mauser military.

17 December 2008, 20:42

Abob

Cabelas sells Basix triggers

18 December 2008, 03:34

shayneC

The Timiney requires some fitting but the rifle basix is a true drop-in. Shayne

18 December 2008, 08:17

shootaway

quote:
Originally posted by Masterifleman:
I'll probably get in trouble for saying this but, the Model 70 trigger (not the new ones) is very simple and very good. The creep you are experiencing is due to the total engagement between the sear and the trigger bar. There is a "pad" there that is probably about .015" high and it should be .006", nothing less , and it should have a "rake" that tapers away from the sear contact point so that the sear will not drag on release. After that has been done, the trigger can be adjusted to break reliably at 2-2 1/2 lbs and completely safe. That trigger is made by the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method and is the best factory trigger ever. After the trigger is setup properly, the cocking piece safety cam will probably have to be cut back some to get the safety to engage. This has to be done very carefully because, if you cut it back to far, even if it engages, when you release the safety, it will fire. Best to be done by someone like Mark Penrod or at least by someone familiar and experienced. In my opinion, replacing the trigger is neither cost effective or to your advantage.

Excellent post! No wonder you go by the name Masterifleman! What do you think of the Ruger trigger?

20 December 2008, 18:54

hta

Thank You everyone for your input. I will act accordingly. Merry Christmas and a prosperus New Year. Harold

29 December 2008, 05:07

airgun1

I worked on a friend's M70 in 223 with safety engagement issues. The parts were notably softer than any pre 64 trigger/firing pin/safety levers that I havew ever worked on. In my opinion you can have it smoothed up but I do not think it will last. The parts were that soft. Fast forward to last week, I removed a barrel from a friend's M70 classic. The threads in the receiver were atrocious. Every pre 64 Win 70 that I ever swapped barrels on was smooth as silk. I have a pre 64 Win 70 in 223 myself. It is a cadillac! It was a Hornet rechambered to 222 but now sports a Douglas Premium Stainless 1:8 twist 223 barrel and also has Rem 722 magazine box and follower with a custom ejector. This little baby feeds and shoots flawlessy.

29 December 2008, 11:31

Masterifleman

quote:
What do you think of the Ruger trigger?

I worked on one of the early ones years ago and it came out OK. I haven't so much as looked at the newer ones so I don't have any opinion. I've heard a lot of derogatory remarks about the newer ones to think a replacement might be in order.