Flyer bullet clean barrel.

01 December 2011, 18:42

Answered an ad about a Remington 700 mountian rifle 7MM 08 for sale. Rifle is in like new condition No nicks scratches on barrel or wood stock.
We took it out to his range with several of his hand loaded shells to shoot. If you shot one off then shot a group theuy were beautiful at 100 yards. But is you cleaned the barrel then shot a group the first shot was about two inches to the right and a bit high.
That is why he sold the rifle to me.
Any Ideas on what is causeing the problem? any Ideas on how to fix it?

thanks

01 December 2011, 18:52

the jigger

Out of a clean cold barrel my varmint weight 25/06 does the same thing. Knowing this I always take a fouling shot. I have no idea what causes it. With my hunting rifles I always foul them before I go to the woods.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

01 December 2011, 18:59

MFD

Cold barrel, first/one shot point of impact is at times not what you will get on additional shots. The fouling in the bore from the first shot will tend to give more consitancy to following shots in terms of POI. Don't know of any "fix" to the matter, but leave the barrel fouled to start hunting and then clean when day is over. Solvent/oil residue from cleaning will alter the shot placement to a degree. Definitely dry patch bore two to three dry patches and then see if situation changes for the better. Just a suggestion.

01 December 2011, 19:25

tin can

Does he have any more rifles with a problem like that? I'm willing to go 35 cents on the dollar for a rifle that won't shoot.

01 December 2011, 20:58

srtrax

My 338/06 doesnt like to be cleaned.

If I clean the living $#!t out of it...it takes around 4 shots to start getting groups. (dont know why) dont care as long as I take it to the field dirty. Than if I do my Part it'll shoot under a half inch.

01 December 2011, 21:01

Stonecreek

quote:
Originally posted by MFD:
Cold barrel, first/one shot point of impact is at times not what you will get on additional shots. The fouling in the bore from the first shot will tend to give more consitancy to following shots in terms of POI. Don't know of any "fix" to the matter, but leave the barrel fouled to start hunting and then clean when day is over. Solvent/oil residue from cleaning will alter the shot placement to a degree. Definitely dry patch bore two to three dry patches and then see if situation changes for the better. Just a suggestion.

+1. I check the sights on my hunting rifles at the beginning of the season and leave the barrels fouled until the season is over, at which time I clean them. Modern components (non-mercuric, non-corrosive primers, modern smokeless powders, etc.) won't damage your bore when left uncleaned for months at a time.

Incidentally, after the fouled bore is completely cooled (or the next day), I'll take a single shot from the cold barrel to assure that it falls reasonbly well into where the group from a warm barrel does. In general, the lighter the barrel the more its impact point changes as it heats. This is one of the drawbacks of the ultralight barrels like on the mountain rifle. If your rifle CONSISTENTLY shoots to the same place on the first shot, but to another place on subsequent shots, zero it for the cold barrel shot. I've never seen a hunter purposefully shoot a fouling/heating shot prior to taking the "actual" shot at his quarry (although I've facetiously used that as an excuse when missing on the first shot.

01 December 2011, 23:07

Atkinson

Too many folks get anal about getting a barrel squeeky clean, and there is no need..I clean my guns once a year, in between I run a bore snake thru them from time to time, a couple of passes work...It has solved all those problems..I really think the bore snake is a wonder, more rifles have been ruined by cleaning rods and improper use than all the shooting in the world.

I zero my rifle in before a hunt and I don't clean it until hunting season is over..

02 December 2011, 01:07

J.D.Steele

The clean-bbl flyer problem can sometimes be alleviated or even cured by properly-done fire lapping. Sometimes.
Regards, Joe

02 December 2011, 04:58

Fjold

I see that very often in many of my guns. I always foul the barrel with a couple of shots and leave them dirty while I'm on a hunt.

I have a stainless Ruger 7 Mag that takes about 12-15 rounds to foul it before it shoots good groups.

02 December 2011, 08:54

FMC

I clean my barrel at the end of hunting season and have been known to skip a year.

But when I do remember having cleaned it I make a point of shooting 3 quick ones in the ground the week before I go hunting.

02 December 2011, 18:53

James260

I have a friend who is a sniper for Uncle Sam and they HAVE to know where the "clean, cold barrel" shoots. That is the way they take most of their shots. He has a note in his book of where the "cold bore shot" hits and then where to adjust for any follow-up shooting.

Sure glad I don't have to do it that way every time. I too foul my barrels before hunting but I also know where the "cold bore" round hits.

02 December 2011, 20:32

Lord Frith

Hi,

Most game animals will not stand still while you shoot for a group, fouling shot, particular angle or range. Do your best and accept only a rifle or handgun that fits your ability and/or desire to improve.
Changing your ability begs practice and your question begs a question. You stated "We took it out to his range with several of his hand loaded shells to shoot." Who did the shooting and what do you know about his reloads, or the rifle, for that matter at the time of the shoot?

I hope you enjoy the rifle for what it is and the challenge it presents. Could be as simple as discovering bullet weight, different powder, applied pressure in bedding the barrel or myriad nuances possible.

Luck,

Stephen

02 December 2011, 22:23

Abob

Which do you think is the bigger culprit for 1st shot flyers - clean barrel or cold barrel?

02 December 2011, 23:02

alleyyooper

J.D. Steele!! Please explain the term fire lapping?
Yes I aqm sure I could find a definition by doing a internet search.
I just thought that since you are the only one who said there may be a cure you would like to explain it.
Thank you.

03 December 2011, 00:37

J.D.Steele

Al, fire-lapping is the process of firing abrasive-coated bullets in order to lap the bore. This still-controversial procedure was developed by Merril Martin back ~1990 or so, using S&W revolvers. His results were so phenomenal that he wrote them up for Precision Shooting magazine and later sponsored a private company to market the kits. Others have followed and the process is popular today.

Apparently the lapping serves to smooth the bore to such a degree that fouling is greatly reduced and, perhaps just as importantly, also serves to equalize the remaining fouling tendency throughout the bbl's length rather than at either the throat or the crown.

Some have reported great success while others deride the process. IMO it depends upon proper application of the proper materials, though apparently some misunderstanding DOES exist among the brotherhood. Details actually deserve their own thread or you can PM me for my own thoughts and experiences.

IIWY I'd try if nothing else seems to work.
Regards, Joe

03 December 2011, 03:54

N E 450 No2

Another thing you can try is to get some Prolix.

If Prolix is the last thing I put in my barrels,then dry them out, now matter how or with what I have cleaned them, the first shot goes into the main group.

Also when on a hunt if my barrel gets wet, dusty or I shoot it some, I can "punch it out" with Prolix, the dry the barrel and chamber and I do not worry where my first shot is going to go.

04 December 2011, 05:38

Abob

quote:
Which do you think is the bigger culprit for 1st shot flyers - clean barrel or cold barrel?

04 December 2011, 18:51

J.D.Steele

quote:
Originally posted by Abob:
quote:
Which do you think is the bigger culprit for 1st shot flyers - clean barrel or cold barrel?

Barrels vary. Sometimes one, other times the other. If the culprit is the clean barrel, IMO there's hope (lapping). If the culprit is the cold barrel, then IMO it's a bad barrel or breeching fitup and there's no hope (temp warping) UNLESS you completely rebreech the barrel to achieve a more even and firmer fitup. Might work, might not. JMO, YMMV.
Regards, Joe

04 December 2011, 20:33

olcrip

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Too many folks get anal about getting a barrel squeeky clean, and there is no need..I clean my guns once a year, in between I run a bore snake thru them from time to time, a couple of passes work...It has solved all those problems..I really think the bore snake is a wonder, more rifles have been ruined by cleaning rods and improper use than all the shooting in the world.

I zero my rifle in before a hunt and I don't clean it until hunting season is over..

+ 1.