Is there another product that will work instead of Brownells 909 for precleaning? Something that can be purchases locally would be best. The Brownells stuff works good but get tired of mail ordering it and hazmat fees. I have tried many things and they all tend to leave streaks or other stuff.

For pre-cleaning before rust bluing or hot salt? There's no reason to pre-clean before hot salt bluing, and for rust bluing Arm & Hammer Washing Soda works great and you can buy it at the grocery store.

Hi John, so your saying I dont have to clean before hot salts? I know there are many small parts that I didnt clean and all was well. Sometimes on barreled actions I will get some streaks. Hardly noticable, but sometimes I see them.

I have never pre-cleaned anything I put into the tank. I skim the "scum" off the boiling salts just before I pull the parts and this seems to make the salts last longer. Keep in mind that I don't use Brownells salts, but my mixture isn't that much different. I have used the Brownells salts in my small tank and have never pre-cleaned for that either. One thing to keep in mind is that Brownells is in the business of selling stuff, often stuff you don't really need.

Blagg

A few years back I worked in a large gunsmithing operation and we washed everything in liquid Joy and cold water, then through the hot water rinse and into the bluing bath. Never had any issues.

In my own shop if the parts are relatively clean anyway I spray them with Simple Green. If I suspect they might be a little oily I go with liquid Joy and water then Simple Green. I always swish them around a little in the hot water rinse which I am using afterwards anyway.

TSP works.

I use Purple Power and a soft brush and near boiling water for a rinse.

I Express Blue.

IMO pre-cleaning is a total waste of time (money). Years ago I did an awful lot of auto mechanics as a part-time business. Automotive machine shops would boil engine blocks and cylinder heads for me, boiled in caustic salt solution almost identical to the bluing solution I use. So what then would be the point of pre-cleaning? I've only been bluing for about 7 years so I know there're more things I could learn, but the importance of pre-cleaning isn't one of those things. For Christ's sake, Brownells top-of-the-line bluing set up has something like 5 tanks; for years I only used two, and only recently added a oil dip tank to speed things up, not because it was actually necessary.

john, I am in the process of adding a oil drip tank to my setup. My bluing tanks are mounted to one of those shop carts with the burners underneath. I was thinking of another cart with the oil tank and a drip tray. What do you recommend for oil? I have heard people using ATF. What would be a good material to make a rack out of ? Seems like expanded steel is going to scratch the crap out of things. I was thinking maybe another plastic tank with holes drilled in the bottom, mounted above the main oil tank. What do yo think.

I built my oil tank into the top of an old stainless steel restaurant table, and the tank has a recessed lid. Using perforated angle iron I built a bar that's about 3 feet above the tank. From that I just hang the parts using the iron wire I used to hang them in the bluing tank, and they drip into the oil tank. I fill the oil tank with a mixture of ATF and mineral spirits. I tried a post-bluing oil from Du-lite but it often left heavy think "blobs" of crap on the parts that once dry were tough to get off. I'll stick with the ATF.

I use straight ATF after the boil out rinse in rain water. Tap water here will cause rust spots. I have a galvanized dip tank then hang parts on a rack right above the tank to drip in over night.

When I first started I used Brownells water soluble oil for the post blue dip and like John I had little brown spots stuck to the metal that was terribly hard to get off. ATF works great.