The Accurate Reloading Forums
Do NOT Trust Gunsmiths
24 September 2022, 23:03
dpcdDo NOT Trust Gunsmiths
Who can't do math.
I just got a barrel returned to me; one of my Rigbys. The owner said his "gunsmith" told him that it was unsafe to shoot, because the rear sight hole was too deep.
(He has obviously never seen a Ruger #1 which is full of holes directly over the chamber and very thin wall thicknesses)
Here are the numbers:
At 5.25 forward of the barrel face; .095 barrel wall thickness remaining from the bottom of the hole to the bore, over a 7x57 CM barrel. He thought that was drilled too deep and would explode upon firing.
Now, that is more than enough, and here is a Remington measurement for their rear sight in the same place: .061 barrel wall thickness over a 30-06 bore. I guess Remington didn't get the memo. Only made 8 million like this.
Of course I will send his money back because I am nice; but the so called gunsmith is an ______. I can't say the word on AR. Poor at math for sure.
24 September 2022, 23:33
Duane Wiebe (CG&R)Hey...another entry for my book "Bullshsit in the Gun Business"
As mentioned, already, it will have to be delivered by a Peterbilt!
25 September 2022, 00:46
p dog shooterquote:
he owner said his "gunsmith" told him that it was unsafe to shoot, because the rear sight hole was too deep.
So why didn't he have that smith do the job in the first place
25 September 2022, 02:33
Bill LeeperI would remove the barrel, refund the money, and let him start from scratch. Regards, Bill.
25 September 2022, 03:49
dpcdThat is exactly what I will do; no more work that is going to be inspected and evaluated by those who have no idea what they are looking at.
25 September 2022, 04:44
HipshootTom,
No complaints about your work here!!!
Hip
P.S. I have had people do that a few times and as usual they had-----Diarrhea of the Mouth and constipation of the Mind!
25 September 2022, 04:50
HipshootADDENDUM!
Only complaint I have me about Tom is he forgot to bill me a couple of times and I had to hound him to give me an amount!
Hip
25 September 2022, 05:50
dpcdNot an accountant. Although the Army did trust me with $300 Mil budget per year. Didn't lose any.
25 September 2022, 07:16
gunmakerI'd tell him .......
25 September 2022, 16:22
SaeedI never do.
That is why I do my own gunsmithing work!
25 September 2022, 21:00
TimanI leave a 1/8 wall thickness. I've seen deeper by quite a bit, especially on the Ruger #1's, those are plenty deep for sure, but they still work fine.
I think you might have a client, opposing gunsmith situation who's got it out for you
and that's all there is to that
Extreme example: Even if you purposely drilled all the way into the bore so it was a vent essentially, the most you would get out of it would be to blow the rear sight off. The barrel would not rupture from that.
Those guys are screwing with you.
Kindly say you're Nucking Futs and go wuck a song.
25 September 2022, 21:31
sliversTaking custom work that you've had done to friends or another "gunsmith" (and I use the word "gunsmith" lightly) seems to be SOP these days. More often than not, that friend or "gunsmith" has been 'trained' by that double edged sword known as the internet. If we turned away every potential client we'd not be as busy as we are, and busy means growing the business. If you work for others, things like this have become part of doing business these days. Most who really don't know, figure they have it all figured-out just by watching YouTube videos, never having handled a tool in their lives. Todays' world if full of internet trained experts,,,,, doesn't matter what the subject or task.......
25 September 2022, 22:16
Logger2walter kolouch told me --- after working in the gun trade for many years he never had the opportunity to meet a gunsmith
--he said it takes a mininum of two lifetimes to be one
25 September 2022, 22:20
customboltdpcd. Didya seal the screw with loctite? No worries. Stick to your guns!
As you already know, like doctors and lawyers and whatnot, not all gunsmiths are created equal. I'd like to know who this 'smith' is by name to check out his credentials via an internet search. Guys like this usually leave a trail of negativity on Google. Send that to the customer. PM his name to me and I'll see what I can dig up. CB
Young black gun guy, old guy? Where was he schooled?
Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
25 September 2022, 23:08
dpcdI did not loc tite the sight on; it still had to be blued.
NO, it would Not blow the sight off even if drilled all the way through, the threads would easily hold all the pressure. And it certainly would not cause the barrel to blow up. .091 barrel wall thickness is plenty for anything; as I said, Remington uses .061 and Ruger, on the #1s, no more than that and directly over the chambers. CM steel is pretty strong.
I know nothing about the so called gunsmith advisor, nor do I want to know.
I also talk to every client on the phone, to get a feel of whether he is crazy or not. I do turn down some that seem to not be worth the effort. I just say, I don't have that reamer. Even if I do. So, if I tell you that, you know it's you.
26 September 2022, 00:48
WoodHunterquote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Hey...another entry for my book "Bullshsit in the Gun Business"
As mentioned, already, it will have to be delivered by a Peterbilt!
Sign me up for the first copy.
26 September 2022, 01:27
sliversTo quote Nathaniel Meyers ,"Incompetence abounds, so be mindful as it is very different from ignorance."
26 September 2022, 04:37
HipshootKeep doing good work Tom!
Hip
26 September 2022, 05:52
BitterrootI've always wanted to create a little blacklist that we could dispense among ourselves...
26 September 2022, 14:30
Peter ConnanUnderstand please that I know virtually nothing about the American legal system, and that which I do know doesn't fill me with any confidence that logic, reason and fact will prevail.
However, I feel that acceding to this guy's demands for his money back is wrong.
I would offer to shoot it for him, in his presence. If it blows up, sure, money back. If it doesn't, sorry.
26 September 2022, 19:48
dpcdIt's not a legal matter in any way.
26 September 2022, 20:03
kendogquote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Who can't do math.
I just got a barrel returned to me; one of my Rigbys. The owner said his "gunsmith" told him that it was unsafe to shoot, because the rear sight hole was too deep.
(He has obviously never seen a Ruger #1 which is full of holes directly over the chamber and very thin wall thicknesses)
Here are the numbers:
At 5.25 forward of the barrel face; .095 barrel wall thickness remaining from the bottom of the hole to the bore, over a 7x57 CM barrel. He thought that was drilled too deep and would explode upon firing.
Now, that is more than enough, and here is a Remington measurement for their rear sight in the same place: .061 barrel wall thickness over a 30-06 bore. I guess Remington didn't get the memo. Only made 8 million like this.
Of course I will send his money back because I am nice; but the so called gunsmith is an ______. I can't say the word on AR. Poor at math for sure.
Like to know the credentials of this "gunsmith" he had second guess your work. Also, either this customer knows absolutely nothing about guns, or he has a problem with just about everyone that does work for him. Bet he is on one or more s**t list.
26 September 2022, 22:33
dpcdI can't educate everyone, even though I try. I do find that most guys actually know nothing about the mechanical and design aspects of rifles; they just know how to shoot them, more and less. And they do manage to kill stuff; even with that pest gun, the 270. Had to put that in!
Situation is now closed.
27 September 2022, 01:00
Fal Gruntquote:
Originally posted by slivers:
To quote Nathaniel Meyers ,"Incompetence abounds, so be mindful as it is very different from ignorance."
Ha! It's weird seeing myself quoted...
Nathaniel Myers
Myers Arms LLC
nathaniel@myersarms.com
www.myersarms.comFollow us on Instagram and YouTube
I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools.
27 September 2022, 03:26
gunmakerMy bent on your great quote:
ignorance has a cure, stupid is forever
I may be missing a little PC in my diet...
27 September 2022, 20:44
Duane Wiebe (CG&R)quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
I can't educate everyone, even though I try. I do find that most guys actually know nothing about the mechanical and design aspects of rifles; they just know how to shoot them, more and less. And they do manage to kill stuff; even with that pest gun, the 270. Had to put that in!
Situation is now closed.
I you gave the 270 fair try, you'd abandon all those "Elmer Keith" relics....HAR...(just had to put that in)
28 September 2022, 04:38
customboltAbout the wisecrack on the .270. I happen to like vanilla, German vanilla, 7X57.
Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
28 September 2022, 05:08
Fal Gruntquote:
Originally posted by gunmaker:
My bent on your great quote:
ignorance has a cure, stupid is forever
I may be missing a little PC in my diet...
Don't worry! "They" will start prescribing you PC before too long....
I completely agree, ignorance does have a cure, and stupid is forever!
Nathaniel Myers
Myers Arms LLC
nathaniel@myersarms.com
www.myersarms.comFollow us on Instagram and YouTube
I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools.
28 September 2022, 07:28
J WisnerI do not call those type of persons Gunsmiths.
They are Arm Chair Parts Replacers
J Wisner
28 September 2022, 08:27
loud-n-boomerI guess all of those German drilling barrels that are only about 0.100 inches thick are ticking time bombs . . . . oh, wait, that extra 0.005 inches makes all of the difference in the world!
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx
30 September 2022, 04:23
JeffreyPhDquote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
I can't educate everyone, even though I try. I do find that most guys actually know nothing about the mechanical and design aspects of rifles; they just know how to shoot them, more and less. And they do manage to kill stuff; even with that pest gun, the 270. Had to put that in!
Situation is now closed.
LOL! You’re channeling Elmer K.
30 September 2022, 07:52
Colin MastersTom has always been incredibly gracious to me, and awesome in our dealing. I also had to remind him to let me pay him after he had sent my rifle to me.
02 October 2022, 21:01
steve505For illustration, ran a simulation of a screw hole tap (no screw) to show some numbers.
Pressure at 5.5" from bolt face was 50.7Kpsi,
Safety Factor was 1.0 for thinned barrel of 0.05"
02 October 2022, 23:11
dpcdChart is too blurry to read; give us the BLUF.
03 October 2022, 00:16
steve505
I used 308 caliber for this exercise.
We are working on a 550 Magnum integral barrel from a 1.5" diameter blank.
The front sight retention pin hole depth was almost into the groove! and
we used simulation to find the yield strength so we would not
have the front sight flying off at an inopportune time
03 October 2022, 01:57
Live OakSome people do not under stand PSI nor the basic rules of pressure in a container! How big in area is the screw hole? 50 KPsi divided by that area, maybe a tenth of a square inch. Plus the pressure dropping 5" from the chamber! Three threads for a screw will hold that!
03 October 2022, 03:15
steve505quote:
Originally posted by Live Oak:
Some people do not under stand PSI nor the basic rules of pressure in a container! How big in area is the screw hole? 50 KPsi divided by that area, maybe a tenth of a square inch. Plus the pressure dropping 5" from the chamber! Three threads for a screw will hold that!
Sorry you do not understand pressure in a cylinder and lack reading comprehension.
03 October 2022, 20:26
steve505The math to calculate the stress of a 8-40 diameter hole (no screw) in a barrel was grossly in error, hence using a static simulation. Note that once pass the tensile strength (135.7 kpsi per Krieger), there is no material disruption as there would be in an actual barrel. Hence the stress in simulation just keeps increasing. Nice thing about simulation, nothing gets broken.
06 October 2022, 18:39
gasgunnerIf someone could do math, why would they get into a field where they have to spend tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment and tools, spend years eating bologna and beans while learning the craft, and then have people expect them to work for half the rate that the plumber gets to fix there crapper?
If they could do math, they would know that 6 months is not 3 years. As in I can get to that in about 6 months, then get it done 3 years later. Not picking on anyone in particular, just been involved with gun buying and building long enough to know how it goes, and I've been on both sides of that scenario. It is what it is, probably never change.
Hope you all have a great day.
John