The Accurate Reloading Forums
Re: Benchrest Records set with Savage
16 March 2004, 08:41
dempseyRe: Benchrest Records set with Savage
I think Redneck is another version of MORTIE. They fish, because they get SO many bites
I like all my rifles including
two Savages. I just don't need to defend them for what they're not or make any excuses for owning them.
I could give a rats ass what others think of what I own. I don't own things to impress others, but for my own
satisfaction.
16 March 2004, 08:26
ClarkWe should credit testosterone for making us love guns and trying to be more accurate with them, but at the same time, that hormone can make a guy show up with one intention: to announce to an audience, "Mine's best!"
That is more of a challenge for head butting than an invitation to meaningful conversation where we learn how to be more accurate.
And Jim, where does it say "separation of church and state"?
I think it is just a liberal catch phrase.
Not establish a religion means no federal church to compete with state churches.
The other thing about arms is in the bill of rights.
--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.
16 March 2004, 07:41
Jim WhiteClark,
See if you can explain it to Redass 64. With his last comment to me I think he is gender challenged. Jim
16 March 2004, 11:55
Jim WhiteClark,
It doesn't say "separation of church and state" anywhere. I think it's just meant to imply that things that are relatively unimportant are "inviolate" and things that are critically important are left open to interpretation when they in fact should be "inviolate" I don't know who originally made the quote but I think it's a mouthful. Jim
16 March 2004, 07:43
Jim WhiteRedass-Another well thought out response I see you silver tongued devil you!
16 March 2004, 11:44
Jim Whitedempsey,
I don't happen to own any Savages but thats not to say I wouldn't. I am the rangemaster at a fairly busy range here in Prescott and I see everything from air rifles to Fred Wells customs and everything in between on a daily basis and when it comes to out of the box accuracy a Savage is as accurate as anything put out by Remchester or what have you. Use your Savages and enjoy them. If I ever get a chance at one for a reasonable price I will not hesitate a second to buy it. Jim
16 March 2004, 13:03
Red Neck64Quote:
Am I the only one who doesn't think Red Neck64 is "one of us"?
Leadfoot
Come on now!We do this all the time at work.And the 17 year's I was in the Army.Don't be so thin skinned,I have no beef with Jim White at all.
16 March 2004, 13:09
Red Neck64Quote:
Leadfoot,
In a word,No.
Reading Rednecks posts brought an old quotation to mind,
It is better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
No Savages here either.
Stepchild
Life is to short to remain silent.Would you call me a fool to my face?I don't think so!
16 March 2004, 13:45
Red Neck64Quote:
Redass-Another well thought out response I see you silver tongued devil you!
Jim White,I was just brakeing b---s.But you people get sooooo up tight.Please don't be mad at me.If I poke you with a finger,well poke me back.Oh yes Savage sucks.
16 March 2004, 13:46
NebraskaIf it wasn't for Mortie, RedNeck64 would've just set the record for my fastest ***You are ignoring this user*** selection!!
16 March 2004, 13:26
Red Neck64Quote:
We should credit testosterone for making us love guns and trying to be more accurate with them, but at the same time, that hormone can make a guy show up with one intention: to announce to an audience, "Mine's best!"
That is more of a challenge for head butting than an invitation to meaningful conversation where we learn how to be more accurate.
And Jim, where does it say "separation of church and state"?
I think it is just a liberal catch phrase.
Not establish a religion means no federal church to compete with state churches.
The other thing about arms is in the bill of rights.
--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.
Will you rifleman just relax?Your detesting me makes life interesting.Did it not?
09 March 2004, 19:29
HammerFrom the March 2004
Precision Shooting , Jacob Gottfredson writes...
Tim Lambert competed in the unlimited benchrest class which includes rifles that shoot from rails and weigh as much as 250 pounds (pictured in article) and are sometimes made totally from metal with no conventional stock. Lambert did something a little different.
Lambert used an action taken from a $350 Savage bolt action rifle. He screwed a Hart barrel on it. Instead of using a fiberglass or steel stock, Lambert used a maple stock (not even laminated). Chambered it for 7mm WSM.
Lambert then proceeded to win the 2003 Heavy Gun 1000 Yard Group Championship.
A week later, Lambert won a Mile Long Competition setting a new World's Record of ten inches for five rounds at a mile.
With a Savage action and a plain wood stock !
Hammer
10 March 2004, 02:16
johnrigbyI've many Savage products over many years, always fair priced and great shooters, they don't have the Rem name nor advertizing budget of the others. The thing that really sets any "shooting iron" aside is the person pulling the trigger.
My $0.02
John
10 March 2004, 03:17
Red Neck64He could have accomplished the same rusult,with an out of the box Savage.Savage chambers and bores are tight and true.
10 March 2004, 03:30
Jim WhiteHe could not have accomplished the same thing with an out of the box Savage or anything else for that matter. Did you miss the part about the Hart barrel? What about the return to battery system that he surely used? Savage chambers and bores are not a damn bit better than anybody elses they just have a unique head spacing system that covers machining errors. Regardless of the "rifle" used it's quite an accomplishment but it still comes down to the "driver"
10 March 2004, 10:09
Red Neck64Quote:
He could not have accomplished the same thing with an out of the box Savage or anything else for that matter. Did you miss the part about the Hart barrel? What about the return to battery system that he surely used? Savage chambers and bores are not a damn bit better than anybody elses they just have a unique head spacing system that covers machining errors. Regardless of the "rifle" used it's quite an accomplishment but it still comes down to the "driver" [/quote)
Well now I don't want to get into,a pissing contest with you.And I know all about head spaceing a Savage"i have a barrel nut wrench",and have head spaced many.But here I go,a Savage barrel is just as good as a Hart!And you will never change my mind about that.Granted some shooters cant hit the side of a barn,so this and that attachment is needed.Buffalo were killed at well over 1,000yds,with primitive rifles,by men who could shoot.End.,
11 March 2004, 19:48
leadfootFor what it's worth. Myself and a friend also have "a barrel nut wrench" and have headspaced a couple. Red Neck64 you don't say why you are re-headspacing your factory bbl's.
The last attempt at being a closet gunsmith had a bit of a problem. The calibre was a 260 Rem to be used as a long range tgt rifle (600 to 1000 yds). Upon installing said bbl and adding a 20 moa one piece base and a Leupold scope much to our dismay we didn't have enough clicks to reach 1000 yds. Upon further inspection we found that the Savage reciever face was out of square by .007. Thus negating the benifits of our 20 moa base. Now that the REAL gunsmith has done his magic I am confident it will perform as expected. By the way it is a Douglas bbl made by Sharp Shooter Supply and shoots very well.
Leadfoot
12 March 2004, 04:02
RAEMMONSHey Leadfoot, I was going to do the same thing to my Savage
New Douglas barrel(to change calibers), Farrel 20Moa Base, and Leupold Scope.
I was going to get all the supplies like nut wrench, blocks etc. SO... Is It harder to do than advertised by sharp shooters or what.( how did you get it off square)
I didn't Quite understand the headspacing part? (Stick an empty sized case into chamber, screw on barrel until pressure is felt on the Bolt???)
12 March 2004, 07:52
HammerRaemmons,
Changing barrels on a Savage is easier than trying to describe it. Think of the barrel as a bolt and the barrel nut as a washer and the action as a nut. Children can do it. Sometimes do it half dozen times in a single afternoon playing with different calibers.
Hammer
12 March 2004, 15:08
leadfootRaemmons
The face to the reciever was out of square to the centerline ot the bolt\reciever. So that when the nut was tightened instead of pulling the barrrel square it was out of alignment ie
ointing down hill.
leadfoot
12 March 2004, 19:18
stepchild 2Redneck64,
A Salvage barrel is just as good as a Hart? Are you sure? To say that a $350 Salvage rifle won the benchrest match is like saying Jeff Gordon's "Chevrolet" won the race.
And Buffalo at over 1,000 yds? With black powder right?
Stepchild
13 March 2004, 05:16
Jim WhiteRedneck 64,
A Savage barrel is as good as a Hart? You have got to be shitting me! I'm sure I could never convince you otherwise but try something for me? Give Savage a call and ask for someone in quality control and ask whoever you get how their barrels stack up against a Hart.
Buffalo at 1000 yards with primitive rifles? I would'nt call that much of a feat when the buffalo has no clue where in the Hell the shot is coming from and just stands there until some "marksman" finally walks a shot into the stupid thing. Or are you talking about the "one shot kill at a 1000 yds" I think you've watched Quigly down under one to many times.
14 March 2004, 02:42
Red Neck64Quote:
For what it's worth. Myself and a friend also have "a barrel nut wrench" and have headspaced a couple. Red Neck64 you don't say why you are re-headspacing your factory bbl's.
The last attempt at being a closet gunsmith had a bit of a problem. The calibre was a 260 Rem to be used as a long range tgt rifle (600 to 1000 yds). Upon installing said bbl and adding a 20 moa one piece base and a Leupold scope much to our dismay we didn't have enough clicks to reach 1000 yds. Upon further inspection we found that the Savage reciever face was out of square by .007. Thus negating the benifits of our 20 moa base. Now that the REAL gunsmith has done his magic I am confident it will perform as expected. By the way it is a Douglas bbl made by Sharp Shooter Supply and shoots very well.
Leadfoot
I have re-barreld many Savage rifles.Not for myself but for others in the past.From 3006 to 270,308 to 7MM08,changing the caliber you know.
14 March 2004, 03:00
Red Neck64Quote:
For what it's worth. Myself and a friend also have "a barrel nut wrench" and have headspaced a couple. Red Neck64 you don't say why you are re-headspacing your factory bbl's.
The last attempt at being a closet gunsmith had a bit of a problem. The calibre was a 260 Rem to be used as a long range tgt rifle (600 to 1000 yds). Upon installing said bbl and adding a 20 moa one piece base and a Leupold scope much to our dismay we didn't have enough clicks to reach 1000 yds. Upon further inspection we found that the Savage reciever face was out of square by .007. Thus negating the benifits of our 20 moa base. Now that the REAL gunsmith has done his magic I am confident it will perform as expected. By the way it is a Douglas bbl made by Sharp Shooter Supply and shoots very well.
Leadfoot
Forgot to add this,commercial rirles do not come from the factory blue printed.The price would be prohibitive..003 to .007 is nothing in a hunting rifle.Remingtons custom shop at IIion N.Y.does blue printing.$$$$$$
14 March 2004, 03:21
Red Neck64Quote:
Redneck64,
A Salvage barrel is just as good as a Hart? Are you sure? To say that a $350 Salvage rifle won the benchrest match is like saying Jeff Gordon's "Chevrolet" won the race.
And Buffalo at over 1,000 yds? With black powder right?
Stepchild
The grate shooter and hunter,Jim Zumbo did a little testing.With A Remington,Winchester,Browning,Ruger,and Savage.Out of the box bolt rifles.The test was at 500yds,the wonderfull Savage won the testing.It printed 6" at 500yds.All rifles were in 3006.Guns&Ammo or Shooting Times Printed the testing resolution,not me.
14 March 2004, 03:38
Red Neck64Quote:
Redneck 64,
A Savage barrel is as good as a Hart? You have got to be shitting me! I'm sure I could never convince you otherwise but try something for me? Give Savage a call and ask for someone in quality control and ask whoever you get how their barrels stack up against a Hart.
Buffalo at 1000 yards with primitive rifles? I would'nt call that much of a feat when the buffalo has no clue where in the Hell the shot is coming from and just stands there until some "marksman" finally walks a shot into the stupid thing. Or are you talking about the "one shot kill at a 1000 yds" I think you've watched Quigly down under one to many times.
Savage does not make barrels.An outside contractor does.Never watched Quigly down under.But I have bin shooting for well over 50 years,and guns have always bin my first love.Even before girls when I was a young man.
14 March 2004, 03:38
wooferi think you might want to add that slick optics set-up and stock arrangement to the list of must haves.
you still need:
driver
car
tires
mechanics
weather
and a boat load of good luck!
i cant imagine what the wind drift would be for a 180@ 1 mile in a 3 mph cross wind but i bet it would put you right out of the running............
great feat. i cant even imgaine. congrats to him........
woofer
14 March 2004, 04:04
Red Neck64Quote:
Redneck 64,
A Savage barrel is as good as a Hart? You have got to be shitting me! I'm sure I could never convince you otherwise but try something for me? Give Savage a call and ask for someone in quality control and ask whoever you get how their barrels stack up against a Hart.
Buffalo at 1000 yards with primitive rifles? I would'nt call that much of a feat when the buffalo has no clue where in the Hell the shot is coming from and just stands there until some "marksman" finally walks a shot into the stupid thing. Or are you talking about the "one shot kill at a 1000 yds" I think you've watched Quigly down under one to many times.
You are a pompous man Jim White.And apparently Illiterate when it comes to the grate shooters of times past.Your pomposity also tells me you are Illiterate when it comes down to rifles.
14 March 2004, 05:45
larrysRedneck64, I think I would watch the illiterate bit when it is "been" not "bin" and "great" not "grate". One would question your credibility.
14 March 2004, 05:56
HammerEveryone,
Let's keep this nice.
No reason for anyone to be unpleasant concerning a Savage rifle's involvement in benchrest shooting. Benchrest shooting is strictly for pleasure and personal accomplishment, so let's keep it that way.
Hammer
14 March 2004, 06:17
Red Neck64Quote:
Redneck64, I think I would watch the illiterate bit when it is "been" not "bin" and "great" not "grate". One would question your credibility.
I have bin wrighting bin all my life.Knowing it's been,just a habit I guess.As for great you got me.But at 65 what do you expect.But I do have knowledge when it comes to rifles'and thats more then I can say for some.
14 March 2004, 06:28
Red Neck64Quote:
Everyone,
Let's keep this nice.
No reason for anyone to be unpleasant concerning a Savage rifle's involvement in benchrest shooting. Benchrest shooting is strictly for pleasure and personal accomplishment, so let's keep it that way.
Hammer
Yes,but it is vary hard to do,when a Rifleman must contend with a man who does his shooting on the computer!
With due respect to all, I recall seeing that article about the factory rifles and it's not at all surprising that the Savage won that little test. I would suggest that Savage won due to it's action, particularly it's bolt, not the quality of it's barrels compared to the others.
As for this BR record, I'd say there's not nearly enough credit being given to the shooter. While that Savage action is a good place to start, I'll venture a guess that SAVAGE barrels will not be found on the victory stand too terribly often.
Reed
14 March 2004, 07:18
HammerReed, et al,
There is no doubt that without the skilled, prepared shooter that there is no hope of competing in benchrest or setting records. Jeff Cooper once told some of us that selling coaching for shooting skills and gun-handling was difficult because everyone's great-grandfather was either Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett. Americans would spend $1000 on a new gun or toy, but not a penny on improving their own skills or mindset.
The comments on the barrels are interesting. I doubt any of the competitors had factory barrels. In this category of competition, they all would have had Hart, Shilen, Krieger, etc quality barrels.
Doubt there was another factory action. Even sleeved Remingtons are seldom (never) seen anymore. Typically, wouldn't they have BAT, Nesika, Shilen, or other benchrest specific actions ?
Think the return of the solid wood stock is also interesting. Most of the competitors would have had rail guns without a conventional stock. Or a fiberglass stock or a sophisticated wood-laminate stock.
But nothing should be implied that takes one-i-ota of respect or honor from the shooter (who was also the gunsmith).
Hammer
14 March 2004, 15:44
BBeyerRedneck
If you think that Remington 40X are blue printed in the custom shop, I've got a couple for you to chuck up and measure. They are no better then any other Remington.Believe me. Bob
14 March 2004, 16:48
djpaintlesA few simple comments:
World Benchrest Set by:
Savage Barrels - Zero
Hart Barrels - Many
Does this fact tell anything about their comparative quality?
Just for the record, it's (been writing) not (bin wrighting).
Everyone will dismiss what you have to say until you take up English as your first language.
15 March 2004, 02:49
Red Neck64Quote:
Redneck
If you think that Remington 40X are blue printed in the custom shop, I've got a couple for you to chuck up and measure. They are no better then any other Remington.Believe me. Bob
I know the Remington 40x are not blue printed.But if you request blue printing,and send the money to Remington,your 40x will be blue printed for you.
15 March 2004, 03:40
Red Neck64Quote:
Just for the record, it's (been writing) not (bin wrighting).
Everyone will dismiss what you have to say until you take up English as your first language.
Well now you can spell,thats just dandy in my book.But can you shoot?Or just another wall hanger?I see you fancy bench rest shooting,now that just makes my ears wriggle.So now look,you live in N.Y.State and I do also.Lets say you and me meet one day this summer,and do some shooting together.Why you could teach me how to spell.And as for me I could teach you the art of shooting.Sound good to you?Oh yes english is the only language I know,well thats not true.I am also fluent in Red Neck a fact that I am let me say dam proud of,born in WATERTOWN,N.Y.U.S.A.Don't you know?
15 March 2004, 03:57
BBeyerRedneck
Anybody that would spend money to have Remington true an action{I'm not sure they do} with the quality gunsmiths there are around, would be spending his money very unwisely.