Have any of you boy's got any current information on these guy's, especially the production manager, one Toyon J. Wiggs?

He contacted me about finishing a project for me back in May of this year saying that Sharps Rifle Company were the new owners of A-Square...

I have been waiting on a call from them since July and now find that all there phones have been disconnected or so says the recording I'm getting!

Could sure use some help getting hold of these guy's!


Phil

Good luck!

Yea!, this whole thing has been a real nightmare, ever since originally talking with Arthur Alpin way back in early 2008 about building a heavy 35 of my own design, what I called a .358PLP...

In 2009 with the understanding that A-Square would build the rifle, I had Dave Manson make up a custom reamer for it along with a set of gages, and sent that along with a $900 deposit for the rile to A-Square...

And never could again make contact with them....

Fast forward to around May of this year! This Toyon J. Wiggs contacts me after I responded to another members request about A-Square, and after telling me that the company was under new management from the Sharps Rifle Company, that they had found my order and wanted to know if I still wanted the rifle, and that they still had my deposit, along with the reamer and gages, and that they would honor the original order...

And I fell for it, and sent them, after having Dave Manson making a custom re-reamer at Reddings request a brand new Deluxe die set for the .358PLP, along with a two die set to put a shoulder on the 404 Jefferies brass for fire forming... that had been made earlier...

So as of right now, I'm out a pretty good bundle on this deal!


Phil

If they still have your money, reamer(s), etc., contact the parent company immediately.

If they are unwilling to help you retrieve your property, file a theft report with the nearest Sheriff in Wyoming (and the BATFE). Follow up with a small claims case.

I do not understand why you would not have told Toyon J. Wiggs to bundle up your goods and money and return them immediately.

This outfit and people associated with them have repeatedly shown themselves to be swindlers and charlatans.

George

It would seem that the parent company along with A-Square have all got the same phone numbers, None of them work!


Phil

WEll I wold have figured it was a scam as soon as the name toyon was given to me

try contacting him directly, if they've folded up your money is gone but maybe he has a way to get your parts to you. I found that he has taught at Casper College before, maybe they have a way you could contact him, I'm sure a paid search would net a number and address although free search hasn't helped me.

I of course don't have any business with them, but considering they used grant funding for 80% of their new shop I hope they get busted if they're taking people's money and not delivering.

"The building east of Glenrock that houses A-Square was made possible by a $1.5 million Business Committed grant, which represented 80 percent of the cost. A-Square is obligated to create 21 jobs in five years."

that's from the paper up there last year. I found rumor on another forum (cabelas) that they have been bought by another company that will continue the ammo side but sounds like, according to rumor, not the rifle side.

Red

Greyghost, if it was me, I would take another road. I would gather up all the documentation I had and head out across N-93 for I-80 to I-25 in the Cowboy state. It would be my vacation of justification. I would stop at the local county sheriff's office for an explanation of the matter then pay them a call to collect my parts and funds with the sheriff at my side. I've made this trip from Lake Elsinor and it is a rather pleasant trip, especially knowing that my custom stuff was coming home with me to find a reputable Gun Maker to complete my project. There is no finer moment when you show up from long distance with the sheriff to pick up your stuff and they are not expecting you. Very gratifying to see the crooks with their pants down and the sheriff shaking a bad finger at them

I have the feeling the place has been seized... here I've been patiently waiting for a call from them, waiting on a progress report on the project... and decided to call them this morning only to find all the phone numbers have been disconected.

A little while ago I called and talked to the business editor of the Star-Tribune that did a story on them back in Dec, 2010 and he said that he's been trying to find out him self what is going on, and that he hasn't seen anyone there in months...

Then a computer search I did, said that Art Alpin as of Feb, 2011 was up on fellony charges for making false application on some kind of jobs grant back in 2007...

I'm gonna keep trying, so far I'm out nearly 2 grand with nothing to show for it.


Phil

With several threads on AR alone regarding Alphin's propensity for fraud, you have only yourself to blame for falling for it a second time.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
With several threads on AR alone regarding Alphin's propensity for fraud, you have only yourself to blame for falling for it a second time.

George

c'mon George. Let's not rub salt in the wounds.

Art Alpin/A Square has had enough legal problems in the last 5 plus years to keep a whole firm of lawyers busy. not sure why you would trust them with hard earned money. my Daddy always said " WHERE THERE IS SMOKE, THERE IS FIRE" . I am sure his supporters will flame me but you can't polish a turd! certainly in this case the facts speak for themselves( unless the poster is flat out lying- which i HIGHLY doubt)

I side with George and jdollar here. He's been a lying SOB about everything since Day One, including his military service...

Just got off the phone with Mike Blanc from A-Square, I had a very nice long chat with him ( must have been an hour or more) about what is going on with the company, and what the future might hold...

Doesn't look like Art Alpin is going to be much of a part of things from now on...

The Hanabil rifle probably won't be produced there any more, but a new item is in the works...

Mike spent a couple day's trying to get a hold of me, and I kept missing his calls, finally we were able to talk and he informed me that my dies and tooling have been sent back to me...

That's the only thing I was worried about, them getting lost in the change of management.

I'm leaving the deposit on the new rifle in his hands hoping that I will get in on the ground floor when the new rifle production does start...


I'm very satasified at this point, and wish them the best on the new company...


Phil

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost:
I'm leaving the deposit on the new rifle in his hands hoping that I will get in on the ground floor when the new rifle production does start...
Phil

I think that is a foolish move. You've been screwed how many times by this outfit? And you're going back for another round?

Like the old joke about the hunter and the grizzly bear, I don't think you're in this for the rifle.

George

I would put more of my money on a blackjack table in Vegas than I'd leave with that outfit...

No offense, but it is said "Experience is a tough school to learn in, but a fool cannot do so otherwise..."

Shit on me once shame on you! Shit on me twice shame on me!!!!!!!



Are you afraid they will not return your funds? Me thinks it's time to saddle up for Wyoming
to retreave funds in person!!!!!!

If I was going to be making a trip to Wyoming, it would be to look over the place and to see if I could assist them in getting it up and running...

Art is pretty much out of the picture from what I understand, and if I can get my nearly $1,200 worth of dies and tooling back, and stay on good terms with the new management...

I'll be happy...

I could have lost it all!


Phil

Or you could have insisted on getting all your money back and finding someone else to build you a gun.

George

Greyghost--

What is Mike Blanc's phone.......


And are they still part of Sharps Co now?Ed

quote:

And are they part of Sharps now?Ed

Which "Sharps" company WOULD that be?

Shiloh, C Sharps?

If you do some research, you will find neither of those companies EVER have had ANYTHING to do with A-Square .

quote:

Art is pretty much out of the picture

Either he's in or he's out of the picture. "Pretty
much" means he's in. Good luck, you will need it.

I just found a Sharps Rifle Co that sells AR stuff,
pistol replicas, holsters, etc,
and shows A-Square is part of them.
But on the A-sq link page no phone numbers there work.

THIS IS NOT THE Shiloh Sharps that makes the replica
Falling Blocks of Quigley fame..Ed

As far as I can tell, Sharps Rifle Company is not at all associated with C.Sharps or Shiloh Sharps. The company that bought A-Square, Sharps Rifle Company, has never actually made a rifle as far as I can determine. I am guessing that they use the name to make them sound more legitamate.

Yes, Hubel, the "Sharps Rifle Co" is not in any way connected with Shiloh, or C. Sharps in Big Timber, MT.

That was my point.

I just wanted to make sure you and everyone else reading this understood that a fact.

I got to find a number to a living being
at either place, Sharps the parent co
or A-sg; ASAP. Ed

Good Luck..

Seriously.

Not aware of the particulars but if state grant money was involved for economic development you might want to alert the secretary of state. I suspect they might frown on this type of goings on.

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost:


Art is pretty much out of the picture from what I understand,

Phil

Phil, "pretty much out of the picture" is like a little bit pregnant. If he is in anyway associated with the new company you are risking another screwing.

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost:
Art is pretty much out of the picture from what I understand, and if I can get my nearly $1,200 worth of dies and tooling back, and stay on good terms with the new management...

I'll be happy...

I could have lost it all!

Phil

You've already lost it all, you just won't admit it. It's amazing to me how much crap people will take from gunsmiths.

I did a quick google search of the company, and interesting what comes up.

Sharps rifle company appears to be a company that has latched onto old trademarks that are abandoned, and registered them to get a leg up on a new company that produces products different than the original trademark. Just a name, for recognition sake, nothing else.

They have taken development money/loans in both Wyoming and South Dakota tied to job creation, and have failed to deliver in either location. I saw one article that said that the company was "bank owned" now. After 2 years in Chamberlain South Dakota, they have failed to begin producing ammunition in a plant that was financed at least in part by local development money.

Their financial arrangement according to quotes from AA and the Sharps Co. Owner is that AA is 80% owned by Sharps, and 20% by Art.

Capitalization is the hardest part of getting companies like these off the ground. Even harder when a remote partner puts up 80% of the cash, and then wants a return on their investment, coming out of your paycheck if you're the guy actually running the company in a lean startup time. Usually, they force the company into bankruptcy, then buy it back at the bankruptcy auction with a bid just enough to clear the other debts, so they end up with the company.

If you don't believe this is what happens in the real world, look at DZ takeover/sale of Ballard Arms, and the lender takover of Dakota arms/Nessica/Miller as a prelude to a lucrative sale to Remington group. That technique was very successful for them in amassing companies at the expense of the naive founders/investors. A similar thing is/has unfolded recently with Jamison International, through a loan/partnership with the owner of Chey-Tac.

In the case of AA, it probably won't hurt anybody's feelings except the innocent customers that lose their deposits in the bankruptcy/takeover. Unless they're very well capitalized, Sharps might not emerge from this the winner either. They may be a loser right alongside AA.

dave

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost:
If I was going to be making a trip to Wyoming, it would be to look over the place and to see if I could assist them in getting it up and running...

Art is pretty much out of the picture from what I understand, and if I can get my nearly $1,200 worth of dies and tooling back, and stay on good terms with the new management...

I'll be happy...

I could have lost it all!


Phil

GOTTA THINK YOU HAVE LOST IT ALL- YOU JUST ARE HAVING A HARD TIME ADMITTING IT.

hope springs eternal.

However, in this case, that light at the end of the tunnel is the 5:20 AMTRAK at ninety-miles an hour...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
hope springs eternal.

However, in this case, that light at the end of the tunnel is the 5:20 AMTRAK at ninety-miles an hour...

Going away from you with your funds! Shit on me twice?

What's the latest?

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Greyghost--

What is Mike Blanc's phone.......


And are they still part of Sharps Co now?Ed

I'd like his # also.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost:
Have any of you boy's got any current information on these guy's...
Could sure use some help getting hold of these guy's!
Phil

Found this info today:

http://issuu.com/theglenrockbi..._smallres/1?mode=a_p

http://issuu.com/theglenrockbi...jan3_2010/1?mode=a_p

http://www.chamberlainsun.com/news.php?default.0.200

http://a-squareco.com/

http://www.manta.com/c/mtcqy2k...quare-of-wyoming-llc

Last one lists a phone number for Michael Blank

Greyghost I sent you a PM

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
Not aware of the particulars but if state grant money was involved for economic development you might want to alert the secretary of state. I suspect they might frown on this type of goings on.

You were on the money with that comment. DCI got involved. See link above



Saeed,
Should this be moved out of the classifieds?

Yep, you are right.

This needs to be in the Gunsmithing Forum.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

You've already lost it all, you just won't admit it. It's amazing to me how much crap people will take from gunsmiths.

And some of us are considered assholes for complaining about it........well maybe I deserve it....

If you had the chance to get your $ back, shoulda done that. I too was happy just getting back 2 actions and 2 blanks from Mr. S. But I knew I didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting any money.

Good luck though.....

Computer crashed and burned over a week ago, and have been going through internet withdrawls! Also notice that the post has been moved...

Had a pleasant conversation with Mr. Blanc, and once requested a prompt return of my dies and tooling... all was well kept and in same new conditon as when I sent it...

As for the money, I'm still holding out hope that they can get the company up and running and I'll still get the rifle out of it... but as Mr. Blanc said there is a long line.

Phil