Remington lugs, thicker = better?

05 July 2003, 12:15

A shooting veteran once told me that he turned down a thick Remington 700 recoil lug because he thinks it is detrimental to accuracy to have the barrel shoulder forward of solid receiver face that much, and he went for a thinner one(but still thicker than factory). How much does a thicker lug really benefit accuracy of a Remington? I am putting together a Remington, and wanting it to be accurate, but I am on hold as to what lug to use.

05 July 2003, 12:52

Brent Moffitt

They're not only thicker, but harder and thus ALOT stronger. A good heat treated lug like the Tubbs is what you want, surface it down thinner if you want, but I'd have it double pinned if I was "that" worried about it. I'd not use a factory one, no way, but I doubt you'd gain anything grinding it down thinner and would guess it would be worse off.

05 July 2003, 16:02

Glen71

More important than it's thickness, is how flat it is. That is to say, how parallel the faces are.

05 July 2003, 20:34

DanD

Ever after market recoil lug I have seen for a Rem700 is thicker than the factory lug, that tells you something.

06 July 2003, 04:09

wallyw

quote:
Originally posted by DanD:
Ever after market recoil lug I have seen for a Rem700 is thicker than the factory lug, that tells you something.

Sure wouldn't sell many claiming yours are narrower, thinner, and softer [Smile]

I've got a project using a Model 7 that I'm going to try eliminating the damn thing. Silver solder a lug underneath where it belongs. Might just Devcon it first to see how that works.

Wally

06 July 2003, 04:48

<allen day>

Thicker lugs are better, but (as previously stated) unless that thick lug is square and everything else is square (or is made square) about the receiver, bolt, and barrel, you just might be installing a "thicker" lug that doesn't do one damn thing to enhance accuracy. It might even make things worse.

AD

[ 07-05-2003, 19:50: Message edited by: allen day ]

06 July 2003, 06:09

Atkinson

There is a sucker born every minute, If you guys believe that sales hype then be my guest....

As long as that lug is square to the world and pinned you don't need harder steel and thicker steel, What? you think the wood stock, laminate or plastic is going to bend steel..the stock will give before the metal....and yes I have shot bench rest and built bench rest guns, also race guns in 45 ACP and they will sell you the world on a silver platter....

06 July 2003, 08:00

stubblejumper

All of the recoil lugs on my custom 700's are factory thickness as is the one on my 40xbks and all average 1/2" or better groups.

[ 07-05-2003, 23:01: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]

06 July 2003, 08:08

triggerguard1

You're not gaining anything by going to a larger, aftermarket recoil lug, except for the fact that they are generaly flat. I say generally because unless you have an inspection granite, with height gage, and test indicator, you're going to have a hard time determining just how out of flat it is, unless you're using high quality mics with very small anvils. You would be better served to have a recoil lug that was close to the original thickness, due to the fact that you are better to have more threads engaging the receiver, than having a thick recoil lug. As Ray said, the wood or stock material is going to flex long before your recoil lug.
Probably one reason that you see the thicker recoil lugs is due to the ease of material aquisition. .250" plate is easy to come by. Anymore reasons than that are given for the use of a thick recoil lug are for pure amuzement purposes only. The factory lug, if surface ground, will work perfectly.

06 July 2003, 14:20

wallyw

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
There is a sucker born every minute, If you guys believe that sales hype then be my guest....

Once this stuff is published in the Magazines it becomes dogma. The .270 Winchester is marginal on blacktail deer or 11 degree crown is necessary to stay on paper.

Matt makes a good point about the availability of material. Thicker recoil lug probably started with a guy rebarreling a customers rifle late one September. Can't find lug so he files one out of some 1/4" plate. Points this out to his customer who immediately assumes thicker is much better. Tells his buddies and another cottage industry is born.

I'm as big a sucker as any other gun nut. Fluted barrels turn me on even though I know a barrel cannot be larger in diameter, lighter AND stiffer.

Wally

06 July 2003, 14:35

Jay, Idaho

Every year or so I surface grind a bunch of Rem recoil lugs to make them flat. You can check flatness with a surface gage/indicator on a surface plate. I treat the lugs as individuals so I end up with a lot of different thicknesses, there are reasons. I've also made some .312 thick lugs that are also longer, from pre-hard CrMo steel. A friend recently made a run of .312 and .375 lugs from 440C that is about 57 R.c hardness. You have the same amount of threads in the receiver regardless of lug thickness. My barrel blocked 1000 yd. rifles do not have any lugs.

06 July 2003, 15:51

<Celt>

Thicker does not matter. Flat does, so does hardness. Even so, I put the fat ones on the rifles because they are surface ground and everyone seems to want one. [Smile]

They look good one the hard hard use rifles too.

Celt

[ 07-06-2003, 06:52: Message edited by: Celt ]

07 July 2003, 12:11

triggerguard1

quote:
Originally posted by Jay, Idaho:
You have the same amount of threads in the receiver regardless of lug thickness.

You're right, I should have rephrased that to say that you have a larger portion of the barrel that must be turned, and or threaded to accomodate the larger lug. You still manage to get the same thread engagement, but you remove more material off of your barrel than necessary.

The other benefit that the aftermarket recoil lugs have, is the fact that most of them are drafted. This helps in removing the barreled action after it's bedded. But, this same thing can be accomplished with the factory lug as well with a little mill and buffer work.

08 July 2003, 03:58

Pyrotek

Thanks for the replies,

I've decided to go for an aftermarket lug, not for the thickness, but for the flatness as it will be a hassle just to find someone to grind my factory lug, it will be thinner after that and still costs me.

Which one of the lug manufacturers produce surface ground lugs for Remington?

10 July 2003, 00:35

Scott Thornley

Just because it's an aftermarket thick lug, don't assume it's harder than the factory, or hardened at all. I've personally hardness tested one of the better known thick after market lugs, and it was in the low 20s Rockwell C.

Midway had a sale on .200 thick lugs with a pin hole already machined, so I bought all I ought to need for a while.

Regards,
Scott

11 July 2003, 05:39

VarmintGuy

Wallyw: In 1997 I had a custom Varmint Rifle built on a Remington XP-100 action. The perfectionist that built this Rifle relayed to me and suggested that it be built without a recoil lug. I at first was skeptical and uncertain! The Riflesmith relayed he had built many Varmint Rifles without the recoil lug and they had all turned out to be accurate and dependable! Eliminating the recoil lug might just be eliminating one factor in the search for accuracy? As it turned out my Hart barreled custom Varminter in caliber 6mm BR is sensationally accurate and remains so to this day after years of use!
The Riflesmith used a formerly radiused 90 degree lip on the underside of the single shot XP-100 action as a bedded into black Marine-Tex "recoil lug". The tiny radius in the lip he squared to a perfect 90 degrees with no radius at all. The action had originally been a 221 Fireball!
I have heard the Model 7 and the XP-100 share some action similarities.
Yes the elimination of the typical recoil lug is possible and commendable at least in my instance of a 6mm BR size cartridge!
Good luck with your project!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy