19 March 2003, 13:03
EXPRESSMuzzle brake minus the noise?
Would a brake still be effective with some kind of shroud, clearing the ports by say 15mm to direct the noise away from the shooter and those in the immediate vicinity?
19 March 2003, 13:11
Kyler HamannI'm sure it would work to a degree and it would be handsome too!
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Kyler
[ 03-19-2003, 04:14: Message edited by: Kyler Hamann ]19 March 2003, 13:38
Chuck NelsonI just love the looks of muzzle brakes dangling from the end of a barrel. This "addition" ought to make it look that much better
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Chuck
19 March 2003, 13:41
Chuck NelsonSorry about the flippant response. The truth is that I'm just to stupid to actually answer your question.
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Chuck
19 March 2003, 13:48
D HumbargerI done that. If you try real hard & imagine a little can about the size of one of those little tomato paste cans, will its a little smaller than that. one end is open & the other end has a hole in the center just large enough for the muzzle break threads to go through. Well you slip this can on then screw the brake on which also secures the directional noise modulator (can) on the barrel. Have you ever stuck your gun barrel into a small culvert & let off a round when you were a kid? Kinda sounds the same. It does help the noise a lot but it ugly on a sporting arm but looks fine on a military gun..
[ 03-19-2003, 04:50: Message edited by: D Humbarger ]20 March 2003, 02:42
savageshooterBe careful. What your describing could be classified as a silencer.
20 March 2003, 03:34
DutchThere is one muzzle break that actually reduces the sound volume.
Below is an article from Gresham that describes the barrel and the co:
A Kinder, Gentler Barrel When Ernest Rogers discovered that his son couldn't hear for several hours after target shooting with a 44 magnum revolver, the Utah engineer wondered why no one made a gun that shot quietly enough not to cause hearing damage if the shooter wasn't wearing ear plugs or muffs. So, with the help of two fellow engineers, he invented one.
Astounding as that is by itself, Rogers's barrel also reduces recoil--and it may make your rifle more accurate.
Legal Silence: The High Performance Gun Barrel (HPGB) is now being manufactured under Rogers's patent by American Safe Arms Inc. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, concerned about any firearm that might infringe on the federal law banning silencers, required ASA to make some changes in design to prevent alteration that might make the rifle even quieter. The Bureau still tests the first barrel of each caliber manufactured.
The HPGB (bottom) is 3/8 inch wider than the
standard 7mm-08 factory barrel it replaced.
"ASA doesn't have a problem with us because their porting is very close to the muzzle," says Ed Owen of the BATF. "Noise is reduced slightly [compared to a bare barrel], and substantially when compared to a barrel having a typical muzzle brake."
Muzzle brakes do lessen recoil, but they create a blast of sound that can permanently damage hearing. Many hunters won't use them in the field for that reason. Most brake manufacturers recommend wearing hearing protection when firing a gun that has a brake installed. (Shooters should wear hearing protection, if feasible, when firing any gun.)
How It Works: The HPGB consists of an inner barrel surrounded by an outer tube to form a sealed chamber. Ports cut in the inner barrel release gases into the chamber as the bullet passes the ports.
"This results in very low gas pressure behind the bullet as it leaves the muzzle," states ASA literature, "thus less noise. The cooler, lower-pressure gas causes less disturbance to the bullet"--making for better accuracy--"and produces no flash. Since initially the gas does not leave the barrel, its momentum is trapped within the gun, causing a reduction in peak recoil."
ASA is now developing a screw-on ported sleeve that reduces recoil even further (up to 20 percent more) without raising noise levels higher than that of a standard barrel.
"My 378 Weatherby Magnum now feels like shooting a 270," says Blanton Wofford of Victoria, Texas, an early ASA customer who has hunted bear, caribou, deer, elk and moose throughout the U.S. "My 120-pound wife shoots it with no problem. And it's more accurate. It has the ASA barrel with the additional [prototype] external brake. Shot a caribou with it in Alaska last month at 390 paces. My 340 Weatherby is in for the same treatment."
Rogers reports "reduction in felt recoil is 40 percent for the standard barrel, and 50 percent"--more, in some calibers--"with the added screw-on brake. Noise reduction is one to two decibels, but the 'softer' muzzle blast is apparent because of a shift toward lower frequencies that also occurs."
Aesthetics: The 20-inch HPGB on my 7mm-08 Model 7 is fat, like a bull barrel. The diameter at the muzzle is 7/8 inch, compared to 1/2 inch for the Remington factory barrel. Total weight remains the same. In all such conversions, the original barrel is turned down and the outer sleeve is installed around it. Several people who shot my rifle concur: recoil is reduced without added noise. Accuracy remains near minute-of-angle with factory ammo.
THE COST OF CONVERSION
Custom conversion of your rifle costs $250. Conversion of your barrel (machined, returned to you for rebluing and inletting): $150. Delivery time is four to six weeks.
For details, contact American Safe Arms Inc., Dept. SA, 1240 Riverview Dr., Garland, UT 84312; 801/257-7472, or fax: 801/785-8156.
FWIW, Dutch.
20 March 2003, 05:31
triggerguard1Take a look at a Harry Lawson muzzle brake. It's the most effective I've seen so far on reducing recoil, but at the same time the noise is directed down range, away from the shooter. Most of all the other breaks that I've seen, direct the gases out 90 deg. to the boreline, and some even shoot them back at you. Not a hot plan if you're not using hearing protection.
Maybe someone on this site has got a Lawson rifle with the break that would be willing to post some pics. If so, you would see what I'm talking about.
20 March 2003, 10:24
JustCVais breaks reduce noise also (over other breaks), but that being said, it's still a muzzlebreak.
20 March 2003, 13:16
D HumbargerNope the front end of the can is WIDE open.
21 March 2003, 13:35
AtkinsonAll hype, there is no quite brake, the only way to make a quite brake is the lessen the effective of the brake and gain more recoil....
Reducing recoil is simply displacement of gas in other words re-directing the gas towards you to counter act recoil and that causes noise...
sorry guys but thats the truth!
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21 March 2003, 15:01
tradewindsThe Gunsmith that makes my Rifles came up with a cup that mounts between the muzzle break and the barrel. It looks like a small Bird Bath on the front of your barrel, Ugliest thing I have seen in a long time. It blows the gasses and noise away from the shooter.
He uses KDF brakes and spoke with the people at KDF who have tested noise on all brakes and they say they are all within a couple decibles of each other.
I have breaks on a few guns and really like them on a 300 and a 338 RUM. I have no problem with the noise. Last time I checked all rifles are noisy
And when on the bench I where plugs and in the field I can not hear the noise.
23 March 2003, 03:49
tradewindsDeersmeller,
Than you should be concerned with all gun noise not just guns with Muzzlebreaks. They will all cause ear damage.
23 March 2003, 06:20
CustomstoxThe jetting gases act in a direction followoing the bullet and this produces the greatest recoil on the shoulder. The more you can "turn" those gases away from the user the less the recoil and the more the noise, as Ray said. There is no free lunch with this combination. If the brake reduces noise by directing the gases downrange then the recoil is not as great. The military recoiless rifles that are commonly used for avalanche control now directs the recoil directly behind the cannon. You had better have the best hearing protection on and not be standing behind when it fires.
Dutch, that device sounds like it is just too good to be true. My cynical nature tells me that it can't work, but there a lot of things functioning today that are difficult to explain also. A gas refrigerator is one, although wehn I took thermodynamics I understood it (just have forgotten since then). Once the gases get into the outer chamber the still have to exit and once they do they exert forces on the rifle again. If the noise is to be low, it has to go somewhat downrange and the recoil goes up. I would like to see one, if it does work cynic in me again, lol). I am not positive how a silencer works or if it reduces recoil in the process. This system may be a hybrid type of a silencer. I do remember that a silencer increases the length of the path for the gasses so in effect, slows them down. That may be the secret to it. Not sure just babbling.
Rick Jamison built a big chamber that he shoots out of his loading room with the aid of an opening window. The chamber is made of 55 gallon drums and they muffle the sound tremendously from reports I have heard. They are not attached to the rifle so it can not transmit recoil.
[ 03-22-2003, 21:39: Message edited by: Customstox ]23 March 2003, 08:58
DutchChic, I have never seen the contraption myself. I just saved the web page when I ran across it a couple of years ago, and filed it in the "gee, that's interesting" file.
I think it has to work. The only trade off is a slight reduction in velocity. I think the way it works is by allowing the gases to expand two or three more times before the bullet leaves the bore. This would drop the pressure of the gas, which must reduce the noise. Because the "outer barrel" contains noise, the gasses can be directed towards the shooter (reducing recoil through the jet effect), without a noise penalty.
I'm almost curious enough to get me one..... FWIW, Dutch.
23 March 2003, 17:13
AtkinsonAll said and done, I agree with Tradewinds, muzzle blast, brake or no brake will ruin your hearing, I'm living proof....and I always wore hearing protection in my later years except when hunting and that is where I lost my hearing, in the hunting field...If one thinks he can hunt with hearing protection, I don't care how modern it is, he is not really a hunter, he's just a gunsel wondering around in the bush with a gun.
24 March 2003, 05:28
Ol` JoeThere is a report by Dick Metcalf in the April issue of Hunting pg20, on a new brake that supposedly is no noisier than the unbraked rifle. He claims it directs the gas away from the shooter while still reducing recoil. The rifle he used was a Steyr scout @6.5lb in .376. He stated he could watch hits on water filled milk jugs @100yds through the scope and the torque from firing was more noticable than the recoil. The brake is called a VA Comp (venturi accelerator)