Turkish walnut

30 October 2009, 04:58

Miers

Turkish walnut

Im looking to buy a Turkish walnut blank but have reservations because of some stories about steaming or boiling . Apparently the steaming removes natural oils and while this permits quick drying the stock fails in a short time.
Is there any truth in this or is it a tale to discredit some sellers?
One auction house advertises 3 years air dried but Im doubtful that is enough time for stabilising and tempering.
Any comment would be helpful.
Miers

30 October 2009, 05:53

TC1

I've heard the stories but have never seen the problems.

Terry

30 October 2009, 06:17

Duane Wiebe

I once thought about writing a book...."B.S. in the Gun Business" Decided you'd need a Peterbilt to deliver one volume.

Paul Dressel was telling me about kilm drying...that's right..with an "M"...Paul is pretty knowledgeable about the various drying process used...you might give him a call...or maybe Sharon will do a post??

30 October 2009, 06:33

fla3006

quote:
Duane Wiebe: I once thought about writing a book...."B.S. in the Gun Business" Decided you'd need a Peterbilt to deliver one volume.

When I did gun shows, I always wore hip boots and brought a shovel.

I've heard those stories about Turkish walnut too but have used Turkish blanks on 4 projects. They seem to be fine, hold checkering well, etc.

30 October 2009, 22:15

srtrax

I hope like hell it'll hold up. The quarter sawn straight grain english didnt, started splitting at the ass end and wouldnt stop. So I just went and redid the whole rifle!
My 338/06 truck gun...updated some!

30 October 2009, 22:55

TC1

That's a mighty fine truck gun!

Terry

30 October 2009, 23:52

DuggaBoye

quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:

Paul Dressel was telling me about kilm drying...that's right..with an "M"..

My grandfather had a sawmill and a kiln for drying/curing.( no, I didn't learn that much

)

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the that "kilm" process was for creating wood products for out door use by 1st chemically treating and the placing in a kiln?

31 October 2009, 04:54

Juglansregia

Judge each blank on its merit.

Any of the drying processes if not done well, can result in a variety of maladies afflicting stock blanks.

31 October 2009, 05:02

ScottS

Walnut of all species is typically steamed. This is done to darken any sapwood and make it blend in better with the much darker heart wood. I would not worry too much about it. Layout, density, and grain spacing are much more important.

01 November 2009, 06:51

drewhenrytnt

check out
hunterbid.com
they have amazing deals on unbelieveable Turkish!!!

Andy

01 November 2009, 22:48

Boss Hoss

Luxus is the Gold Standard for the finest that exists right now. Take a look at what is online----that is just a fraction of what they have PLUS they are honest!! The only a couple of people who sell wood are allowed into the Guild show and that should tell you something!!
Luxus Home
I have spent about 30k with them with no end in site!! They also control the process from the logs to their facility in Ohio which I visited last week.

02 November 2009, 00:12

Juglansregia

Steaming may darken sapwood, fine. It is probably done partly to increase the yield of blanks from a tree, not many people want blanks with "white wood" showing.

However it is still sapwood - softer and generally more open pored than heartwood. Not for me.

02 November 2009, 01:54

merlinron

juglans is spot-on, sap wood isn't just about color

02 November 2009, 03:46

N E 450 No2

I think the "secret" for a non expert in buying a stock is to deal with a good wood company...

I know IF I wanted to buy a good stock, I would talk to Luxus, tell them how much I could afford to spend... What I wanted the stock to "look" like, ie dark wood, grain flow etc, and what calibre I was putting it on, and follow their advice...

Look at some pictures and pick the one I liked.

02 November 2009, 03:55

TC1

Steaming wood doesn't cover up anything including sap wood. Where did you'll get that from?

Terry

02 November 2009, 04:08

gunmaker

quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
Luxus is the Gold Standard for the finest that exists right now.

Finest to look at, or finest to work on?????

I personally would be pissed if I bought a blank that had sapwood covered up with stain at retail prices.

02 November 2009, 05:06

Josh A.

Luxus, is the best. I buy only from them.

josh

02 November 2009, 05:08

Boss Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by gunmaker:
quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
Luxus is the Gold Standard for the finest that exists right now.

Finest to look at, or finest to work on?????

I personally would be pissed if I bought a blank that had sapwood covered up with stain at retail prices.

Well if you know Chuck Grace you can ask him he builds my wood guns----do you know Chuck??

Also, have you been to the Luxus Facility and seen the pallet upon pallet of wood that has NOT been steamed… To insinuate that Luxus does that type of thing on purpose as a means to deceive is not a good thing to do. Will inform the appropriate people and I will see you at the show where we can discuss it further if you wish--have a good one.

02 November 2009, 05:24

gunmaker

I said stain, not steam.

They do have some great looking wood.

02 November 2009, 05:32

Boss Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by ScottS:
Walnut of all species is typically steamed. This is done to darken any sapwood and make it blend in better with the much darker heart wood. I would not worry too much about it. Layout, density, and grain spacing are much more important.

Sorry but I know several folks (one in Utah) that cut and control the process the entire production cycle time and do not steam the wood including Luxus. I have lots of blanks from true Circassian from near the border where the real stuff has to come from to Screwbean, Japanese Walnut -- yes they have heart shaped nuts, English, Turkish, Makassar – so heavy it will not float, and Hurricane Utah Black (very dense compared to the stuff grown in less harsh environments).

Buying blanks is not for people who do not know what they are buying and what they really want. Funny how most people do not know what feather is and what causes it but they know they like it!

02 November 2009, 05:39

Boss Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
quote:
Originally posted by gunmaker:
I said stain, not steam.

They do have some great looking wood.

I know EXACTLY what you said and my statement should have said Steamed or Stained my bad. All of the blanks I have seen from Luxus including the pic of the one I have on another thread was not stained of finished---just MINERAL Sprits brushed on!!!!

02 November 2009, 05:45

BISCUT

While I don't purport to know crap about stock making I do know a bit about cabinet making w. various types of wood.

Concerning Turkish I would be very concerned about how the wood comes to market way over in the triangle. How "they" handle it initially means a lot for the end product after it gets bartered for sale to the rest of the world.

If cheeking is minimal by the time it gets here a kiln IMHO is the best way to go but consistent air drying will work as well. Consistent humidity levels are key. And of course the smith should ensure moisture content is stable before machining.

02 November 2009, 06:39

Juglansregia

IMO buying wood from a very respected stockmaker is probably the best way to go.

Such a person is well qualified to judge a particular blank, and they care greatly about what they offer knowing that they might well be the person using the blank!

This is certainly not to say that most blank retailers don't know good blanks, but how many of them are really accomplished stockmakers - those that are have another facet of experience to offer weight to their opinions. And how many customers out their can really judge?

A dehumidifier is a good investment in some climates and allows the gunmaker/stockmaker to adjust the end moisture content of SEASONED blanks to just below the average of the area completed stocks will be sent to. This process requires time also.

02 November 2009, 09:10

Miers

Thank you for all your helpful replies.They are much appreciated.
I already have a blank from Luxus but have not yet used it . I found them excellent to deal with; and its clear that they do not steam their wood.
I have bought a blank from Hunterbid because it had so much visual appeal. Not very good grounds , I know , but it has good layout with straight grain through the wrist.The colour and grain are striking.It has a misture content of 9% ( From New Hampshire ) and has been air dried since2002.
Since starting this post I was surprised to read a passage in the book BRITISH SHOTGUNS by noted authority Geoffrey Boothroyd. He writes:
Blanks are steamed to remove the sap and kill any worm.... At this stage the moisture content is can be as high as 30% Blanks whenbrought into Britain ( from France ) are dehumified until the moisture content is brought down to twelve and a half per cent.
End of quote.
So it seemed that the Brits steamed their blanks - or at least the French did.
The typical moisture content in Melbourne , I am told ,is between 9 and 13 per cent. It seems that my new blank has the right moisture content then , but I think I will let it settle a while before I use it.Thanks again to all who replied.

02 November 2009, 17:33

J.D.Steele

I've found that it's a good practice for me to allow an additional air-drying period of up to 2 years between the semi-inletting/shaping and the final fitting and inletting. Not always possible of course, but this additional time allows for better stabilization of any stresses that may have been relieved by the shaping and semi-inletting. You don't hafta ask how I arrived at this conclusion.

I always let my wood air-dry for many years before doing anything with it, one of my blanks is now over 40 years old. Moisture content in my part of the country runs ~13-14% with a humidity range of 50-95% and so stock finish takes a LONG time to dry.
Regards, Joe

03 November 2009, 08:03

Duane Wiebe

None of my business, but why aren't you buying walnut grown right in your part of the world?

The Australian Walnut I've used is about as good as it gets.

04 November 2009, 01:53

Miers

Well might you ask ! The short answer is because you have all the good stuff over there.
I bought an Australian blank a year or so ago and its nothing like the quality of the Luxus blank and - hopefully -the blank I have just bought from Hunterbid. The price was similar though.
Its only in recent times that the Australian dollar has gone up to 90 cents against the greenback.The prices on Luxus and Hunterbid walnut look pretty good to us Aussies right now.
Roger Vardy has a factory and showroom up in the mountains but its well over a hundred miles from here. Regards

04 November 2009, 03:20

butchlambert

I have Roger Vardy's wood on 2 rifles and another that James Anderson is doing. James and David Christman both like the way the Aussie wood works. In David's opinion a piece of wood can be dry, but not cured. He said that Maurice Ottmar pointed that out to him.
Miers, a 100 miles is a short drive to get good wood.
Butch

04 November 2009, 19:15

srtrax

quote:
Miers, a 100 miles is a short drive to get good wood.
Butch

100 miles would be a short drive to be able to hand pick one from the litter!

05 November 2009, 06:51

Duane Wiebe

quote:
Originally posted by Miers:
Well might you ask ! The short answer is because you have all the good stuff over there.
I bought an Australian blank a year or so ago and its nothing like the quality of the Luxus blank and - hopefully -the blank I have just bought from Hunterbid. The price was similar though.
Its only in recent times that the Australian dollar has gone up to 90 cents against the greenback.The prices on Luxus and Hunterbid walnut look pretty good to us Aussies right now.
Roger Vardy has a factory and showroom up in the mountains but its well over a hundred miles from here. Regards

Well..Hell...I can always send some back to you!