The ACGG Rifles...

07 October 2003, 10:26

DeBee

The ACGG Rifles...

Are detail pictures of these rifles archived somewhere?

Occasionally, I find the description of who did the work on the web but pics are tougher to get...

Naturally, I'd like big pics of all of them to study but I am particularly interested in ACGG #16 The Pre War Winchester 70 7x57 Whitetail Rifle.

07 October 2003, 11:13

Dago Red

here here! I was searching this morning for more pictures of them. They are so intricate that I would think about 50 per rifle would cover the details :-)

Seriously, it would be very very nice if the craftsman that worked on them could give detailed explanation of how things were done like Thomas Burgess did on the Ultimate Enfield that was posted here.

Red

07 October 2003, 12:19

Customstox

If you go to the guild site you can see a number of photos of this years rifle and then a bried description of the earlier ones with one photo of each. The earlier descriptons go back to #16. There is only one photo of the #16 on the site. This link will take you to a list of the recent rifles.

Here is the page of this years rifle. The most incredible .22 rimfire I have ever seen.

I will check with our executive director and see if there are some more digital photos available for the #16.

07 October 2003, 16:52

Wstrnhuntr

I really liked the Springfield/Whelen from last year. Unfortunatley there arent many pic's remaining of it though.

07 October 2003, 17:06

vigillinus

Last year's Springfield was a travesty of what a G&H classic ought to be like - the smiths who made it had no idea of what they were doing - the first ACGG gun in years I woudn't buy chances on.

07 October 2003, 17:48

Customstox

Wstrnhuntr,
You can view the old brochure for that rifle here. There are more photos there of that gorgeous rifle.

07 October 2003, 17:55

Dago Red

Chic,

I am pretty impressed by them doing the 22 myself. seems to me that not only would they have to convert the centerfire to rimfire, but they also devised a magazine setup for it. I am really curious about converting it to a tang safety, seems I saw another rifle customized somewhere in my looking that had been converted also. Just wondering what all goes into that, since it seems like a much more natural place for a safety then way up on top where you have to reach for it.

Vigillinus- what was it that was wrong with the rifle, or was it the choice of caliber for a commemortive that you didn't like? The only things I would have started out differently with (because I would take it the way it is finished) is that I personally would never want my scope mounts permanent to the rifle, and if I were scoping an american classic then by george I would want an american scope! :-) But like I said, I would still take it!

Red

07 October 2003, 18:48

GrandView

quote:
Originally posted by vigillinus:
Last year's Springfield was a travesty of what a G&H classic ought to be like - the smiths who made it had no idea of what they were doing - the first ACGG gun in years I woudn't buy chances on.

I may have couched my critique in slightly different words........I think the craftsmen that did the work on the #18 Springfield are certainly top of the line.

That said, I was also disappointed in the style and components used for the project. My opinion is a commemorative effort on the 1903 Springfield could have retained more flavor of the early Springfield customs rather than the current vogue of disguising what the action really is. I was amazed the cocking knob was retained.

GV

09 October 2003, 02:27

510w

Are those guys at cnccustom guns.com in the guild,i cant seem to get back on that web page,if so how can i contact them,the 22mag, mod 61 win. has me thinking but not as pricey as that one looks,can anyone tell me about those guys.

09 October 2003, 06:07

Howard

Isn't G&H a company that makes custom rifles? As such why should another custom maker be expected to make something that looks like a G&H? Please explain, I don't understand.

09 October 2003, 06:41

DeBee

I wonder if we could add a section to the photo gallery on the accuratereloading home page devoted to these rifles?

Several detailed pics of each gun with descriptions in numerical order would be ideal...

Great reference material.

09 October 2003, 10:33

Customstox

510w,
CnC is James Corp and Craig Click adn both are in the guild. James has been for some time and Craig became a regular member just last year. He is under the classification of metal finsihing and does rust and caustic bluing, color case work etc. He is also a very good stockmaker.

09 October 2003, 13:41

GrandView

quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
Isn't G&H a company that makes custom rifles? As such why should another custom maker be expected to make something that looks like a G&H? Please explain, I don't understand.

I don't think it was necessary or expected that the ACGG would make a G&H clone. Nor a Linden, Shelhamer, Owen, Hartley copy.......to name a few people who's work made the 1903 Springfield a fixture in the early days of custom guns.

However, I would have preferred the 100th anniversary offering to be more a refinement of the above, rather than a departure in favor of contemporary extreme customization.

Further, the following was the stated objective in creating #18.

From the brochure........

The #18 was styled after the great pre-war Griffin & Howe rifles and chambered for the famous .35 Whelen cartridge.

GV

09 October 2003, 15:09

Howard

Thanks Granny! [Wink]

09 October 2003, 16:34

GrandView

quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
Thanks Granny!

Heh Heh.....

Granny it is then, Howard. I've convinced myself that this white hair, and my affinity for the Springfield, gives me the right to be stuffy.

My brother is worse. Less white hair........but more opinionated on the subject.

[Smile]

09 October 2003, 16:53

Howard

Larry opinionated? Surely not.

Seriously though GrannyView [Wink]

thanks for posting that ï¿½definitionï¿½ about that rifle.

09 October 2003, 17:26

GrandView

quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
Larry opinionated? Surely not.

LOL

As an aside......

On his recent trip back to the midwest we culminated our annual gun trade.

We basically swapped Springfields along with some odds and ends. Larry got all my wood and I got one of his expensive extensively-modified Springfield barreled actions.

I beat him on investment.........he came out ahead on value. Not a bad deal.

[Smile]

09 October 2003, 18:15

510w

Thanks Customstox,I finely was able to get back to there web page and just in wonder i called him,He said he done everything on the mod. 61 win. but the checkering and engraveing.Of corse it says so on the pic's. page. Mr Corpe done the cherkering on it and he also does minitures,and that he had done one at 66 l.p.i. he must have stedy hands, And Mr Boucher that done the engraveing has done projects for 6 presidents including Mr G W Bush,He seemed like a very nice fellow.Thanks for your reply.

11 October 2003, 14:25

vigillinus

Grandview has succinctly expressed my point of view. The Springfield was supposed to be an interpretation of the between-the-world-wars custom rifle, not an overdecorated overaltered overrefined contemporary job overlarded with superfluous bells and whistles. The grand classics by G&H, Owen, Hoffman, Niedner, etc., were austere in comparison, their beauty depended more on their lines than on intricate surface details. A technical flaw was the use of the single lever G&H sidemount, these were unsatisfactory and were rapidly abandoned by G&H in favor of the double lever which is still made. I will say however that this year's .22 is a cutie and I have bought tickets.

11 October 2003, 16:20

J Wisner

A little food for thought.

The ACGG rifle for 2006 is a Pre 64 M70 in 30-06 with detachable rings and two Leupold scopes.

The ACGG rifles for 2007 is two M 98's. One in 7x57 and the other in 7mm Rem Mag. Both will have Leupold scopes.

Jim Wisner

11 October 2003, 16:40

Idared

As long as everyone is voicing their opinions about the ACGG Springfield I might as well throw mine in also. After all, someone accused me of being opinionated above. [Wink]

I have never figured out why it is necesary to try to make a Springfield look like a Mauser. The main thing I am referring to is the bolt stop or more correctly the cutoff on the Springfield. Why put a Mauser type bolt stop on it? I don't think I have ever seen a Mauser type bolt stop on a Model 70 so why put it on a Springfield?????? I happen to like the original Springfield look because it is a design all of its own and it also has a function connected to it that other rifles in military dress don't have.

Also the Springfield is one of the very few rifles that don't need a spring to make the ejector function. It is not prone to breakage like the 17 Enfield was. Changing the bolt stop to a Mauser type probably makes this function less reliable also.

I agree with Granny, the people that did the work on the ACGG Springfield were very, very, good craftsman but I was disappointed with the end result. I would have been happier if they had used a 17 Enfield as the base action rather than a Springfield if they were going to totally change the original look of the action. After all, it was chambered originally in 30-06 also.

[ 10-11-2003, 07:42: Message edited by: Idared ]

11 October 2003, 18:36

Howard

quote:
Originally posted by Idared:
I agree with Granny,

Whoops I think that name stuck! [Wink]

11 October 2003, 19:07

Dago Red

Since we have slid over to talking about customizing the 1903, which is very fine with me (sliding to that topic I mean), I thought I would share my opinion.

I have seen since joining the board here some pictures of fantastic rifles, some that I no longer recognized the original action in, and while gorgeous I do like original features in a rifle, things that make them unique. Here would be those things.

the 1903-03a3, the knob on the cocking piece, essential.

the 1917, the safety. my favorite safety to work (for me personally) of all rifles I have shot to date. I love the way it feels, the way it works, and the position.

Mausers, hmm, I don't know about preserving so much as not changing. I like the bolt shroud that allows the cocking piece to extend past it like it was originally supposed to do. I have one in the safe somewhere that has a safety like found on Remingtons I guess, I think part of the trigger, a two position deal right above the stock line on the right side. anyways, I guess for it to work they put a different shroud on it and it is a bigger affair that extends further back on the bolt body than the originals. I don't like it as much.

Red

12 October 2003, 04:20

Howard

I must have a springfield actioned rifle someday.

Larry you don't have one to trade off do you? I promise to chamber it in 30-06!

12 October 2003, 12:55

Idared

I must have a springfield actioned rifle someday.

Larry you don't have one to trade off do you? I promise to chamber it in 30-06!

Howard

Its possible. There is one in the safe that hasn't been messed with much yet. Grandview may take me to task if I get rid of it, but I doubt he will ever use it either. He already has two of the best I have had over the years. [Wink]