A customer just brought in a new M70 300 WSM he
bought at Wallyworld to have the trigger tuned.
I guess now Winchester has two control feed M70's

(they converted their push feed to a controled feed of sorts). hmm... What do you think about this innovation? Yes, no, maybe..?

[ 10-25-2002, 00:56: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]

I kinda like the looks of this new bolt face. Best of both worlds -- controlled round feeding and no problem single feeding without going through the magazine. The ejector cut does look like it's larger than necessary, though. Of course that may be by design to funnel any gas leakage down the left-hand bolt race. How did Winchester do this without anybody getting wind of it?

Stonecreek,

All of my new Winchesters (two 30-06 Supergrades, 7-08 Compact Classic, & Custom Shop 458 Lott) will single feed without feeding through the magazine. Maybe they have engineered them a little differently on the new ones.

LongBob. All the current production CRF rifles I know of have reciever cut outs that allow one to feed a round directly into the chamber. The newer mauser "claw" style extractors also have a beveled face, not a square one, to encourage them to move sideways to snap over the rim of such a round.
I don't like the new Winchester design. I much prefer the mauser claw to the sako hook. If I'm going to put up with a hook, I prefer a push feed like the Sako actions. They use PF with a fixed ejector like the Mauser 98's. You get much more cartriage case head support/gas suppression that way. E

This is not Winchesters Model 70 Classic but their push feed action with a new modification. I wonder if all the M70 push feeds are like this now? Much less force exerted on the extractor this way. No more lateral movement required to engauge the extractor grove of the case.

[ 10-25-2002, 03:22: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]

I hope if you bought a M70 stainless .375 H&H you would not accidentlt end up with one of these push feed things in .375

Doug,

Can we see a side picture of that?

Regards,

Terry

how bout the bottom? Two slightly different angles. I already had it scanned.



[ 10-25-2002, 04:16: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]

Doug,

Thanks. So there is no Mauser style extractor, just that thing pinned to the front of the bolt?

Interesting.

Regards,

Terry

This is just a modification to their push feed design. It could be done to the existing push feeds already in circulation too. Retaining the original plunger type ejector.

Eremicus,

Thank you for the explanation. You do realize that the first picture is not of the current CRF Winchesters? Part of your post confused me. This is not hard to do.

Bear Claw,
In order to do a similar conversion on an existing push feed the plunger ejector would have to be spring loaded to the rear so it would be out of the way then mechanically activated by contact with the bolt stop. Steyr used this system on some of their rifles as I recall. Regards, Bill.

Doug, did you buy a new camera?

Isn't this similar to Savage.

I quite like the idea for two reasons. Firstly, for me the plus with CRF is that it just makes the rifle nicer to use. Even down to just running cartridges through the magazine or have the bolt pushed forward but not turned down. With push feed of course you need to turn the bolt down and thus load the rifle so as to extract the cartridge.

Secondly, it allows for actions to be set up so barrels can be swapped between them because there is not extractor slot to worry about.

Mike

I'm not sure which Model 70 this is but my blued laminate stock model has the mauser style extractor and a round bottomed bolt.

GSF I used my trusty ole scanner.

Looks like Winchester has copied Savage again.This is just like the Savage 116FS(I think).Winchester copied the sliding type extractor from Savage back in '64, I think Savage had it about 1960.Now they've copied the modification to make it a "controlled feed" of sorts.Earlier Savage 110's had a half moon clip type extractor,similiar to the Rem 700 but mounted on the outside of the bolt.Very interesting photo.

Rembo Savage copied that extractor system from the German K43 semi automatic rifle.

I wonder why they cut the angle on the bottom of the extractor lip ? That would seem to weaken the portion that does the work .

What version of the M-70 was this on ?
I suspect this is an attempt to find a system that will reliably feed their short fat magnums in untuned actions and still be able to say they are making CRF ........

[ 10-25-2002, 18:20: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

After reading the comments and studying the photo a little longer, I wonder if in practice this bolt face actually feeds the rim from the magazine under the extractor or if the case actually jumps out of the magazine ahead of the extractor is is only engaged after it enters the chamber and the bolt turned down.

What about it, Bear Claw, have you tried cycling the action with actual rounds to see how it behaves?

StoneCreek I just did that. It does indeed cycle in the traditional controled feed manner & smooth as silk too. I asked the customer to bring the box when he picks his gun up so I can look at the label on the box.

PS: It does have a black classic profile but rather racy looking stock. The forend & grip area has a heavely pebbled surface. Looks to be the same stuff that the Ramline stocks are made from.

I just checked the Winnie website & this rifle is not there.

[ 10-25-2002, 20:22: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]

It's a Winchester Vanguard built by Howa.

The box is labeled "Super Shadow"

Yes, Longbob. I have an M70 Classic with the mauser style extractor. I realize this new design is similar to the Savage CRF actions, not the classic mauser style of the M70 Classics.
I have always been fascinated by rifle designs, what works, and why. While I have a fondness for the mauser style CRF, I must admit most of my big game rifles are push feed designs. Trade offs in weight savings, etc. E

I found them at Wal-Mart tonight,they are $328.98 with a off brand scope. I looked at one and it is a fairly good looking gun. I am thinking of getting one for the girls,as a mid season gun.It will take me that long to get all the bugs out and shooting like a mid priced gun. But I thought ya'll would like to know this.

Doc in Texas

PS that sportinggood manager told me this is a special run for discount stores like Wal-mart and K-mart if they still sold guns.

Bearclaw,
I like it personally. Ask the customer, if it isn't too late already, to let us all know how it shoots!

TEG

I'm waiting on his report now but its been raining cats & dogs soI doubt if he got to shoot it. It will be a while till I hear anything.

Bear Claw you have mail! Doc in texas, what is the phone # to your Wal-Mart? The wally-world here has a case of the "don't know anything about its" maybe if I can get them a product # they can look it up. Anyone know what are chambering them for other than the WSM? Maybe the WSM are the only ones getting the CRF mod?

DOC

Doc the phone number to the wally world here is 337-824-4838. Ask for the head of sporting goods Dept. "Brandy" The box is labeled "Super Shadow" I did get a UPC number (barcode number)
048702126505.