6.5 Grendel Chamber

15 April 2009, 05:45

starmetal

quote:
Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Doe anyone have a 6.5 Grendel reamer, and willing to chamber a Lothar Walther stainless with it?

KB

There are two different reamers. One is for bolt action rifles and Alexander Arms has nothing to do with, the other is for the AR15's and I'm not sure Bill Alexander has released it for reamer companies to duplicate. What are you barreling for a bolt rifle or AR?

Elk Ridge Reamer Co has a 6.5 Grendel for a bolt rifle to rent. Here's the page:

http://www.reamerrentals.com/S...hResults.asp?Cat=343

15 April 2009, 07:39

Kabluewy

As I research this more, I see that there's more to it that initially thought. Anyway, my initial goal was to chamber a barrel for a bolt action. Since my initial post I have talked with a reamer maker who has explained most of it to me. I also discovered my usual gunsmith is interested in putting together an AR 15 for himself. We have more to discuss.

Thanks

15 April 2009, 07:49

starmetal

quote:
Originally posted by Kabluewy:
As I research this more, I see that there's more to it that initially thought. Anyway, my initial goal was to chamber a barrel for a bolt action. Since my initial post I have talked with a reamer maker who has explained most of it to me. I also discovered my usual gunsmith is interested in putting together an AR 15 for himself. We have more to discuss.

If someone is wanting a 6.5 Grendel barrel for their AR15 I highly recommend Lothar Walther in Atlanta, Georgia. They make what they call a 6.5mm barrel or 6.5 CSS barrel. CSS is a website and company they own. They are the same exact chamber (actually the original as they really drew up the chamber and then the reamer)as the 6.5 Grendel. In fact they made the first 6.5 Grendel barrel, but then there was a dispute over the contract and LW dumped AA company. I know the guys that did all this at Lothar Walther and dumb your gunsmith knows more about it then I do. There were two original different chambers. The only difference being the neck area of the chambers. The standard chamber has the .300 neck and the other chamber has a .295 neck. Sometimes the .295 chamber was considered a match chamber, but actually it's not. The neck was tighter to preserve the brass longer. Both chambers have a multi angle throat. The LW barrel specs were originally a .2639 groove, .256 bore, right hand twist of 1 in 8 twist, button rifled. The barrels come with a 7.62x39 bolt and are head spaced for that. The AA bolts have a .011 deeper face cut that prevents them from being interchangeable without proper re head spacing. I won't get into why. If I can help with anything else let me know. I can put you in touch with the man to talk to at Lothar Walther.

That's all there is to it. It's an excellent little cartridge. It's really designed to shoot a 6.5 bullet in the 120 to 130 grain class.

Joe

Thanks

15 April 2009, 08:36

Kabluewy

quote:
Originally posted by starmetal:
I highly recommend Lothar Walther in Atlanta, Georgia.
They make a 6.5 CSS barrel. the same exact chamber as the 6.5 Grendel
There were two original different chambers.
The only difference being the neck area of the chambers.
The standard chamber has the .300 neck and the other a .295 neck. Both chambers have a multi angle throat.
The LW barrel specs were originally a .2639 groove, .256 bore, right hand twist of 1 in 8 twist, button rifled

Joe
Thanks

Thanks Joe.
I have quoted some of what you wrote so that I can isolate and focus the issues that I ask for clarification. This CSS chamber, is it the same as the original 6.5 Grendel, if so which original? And I'm wondering if the LW still uses the same bore, groove and twist rate?

I'm also wondering if you had a misspelled word or something when you referred to my dumb gunsmith. I didn't think you knew the dumb SOB?

15 April 2009, 08:45

starmetal

quote:
Originally posted by Kabluewy:
quote:
Originally posted by starmetal:
I highly recommend Lothar Walther in Atlanta, Georgia.
They make a 6.5 CSS barrel. the same exact chamber as the 6.5 Grendel
There were two original different chambers.
The only difference being the neck area of the chambers.
The standard chamber has the .300 neck and the other a .295 neck. Both chambers have a multi angle throat.
The LW barrel specs were originally a .2639 groove, .256 bore, right hand twist of 1 in 8 twist, button rifled

Joe
Thanks

Thanks Joe. I have quoted some of what you wrote so that I can focus the issues that I ask for clarification. This CSS chamber, is it the same as the original 6.5 Grendel, if so which original? And I'm wondering if the LW still uses the same bore, groove and twist rate?

I'm also wondering is you had a misspelled word or something when you referred to my dumb gunsmith. I didn't think you knew the dumb SOB?

KB

I should proof read my post

...yes that word should have be doubt rather then dumb.

I doubt AA changed the chamber. LW like I said drew up the 6.5. AA really didn't have a lot to do with the 6.5 Grendel. After everything was finalized the plans and specs went to Lapua. Lapua tweaked the cartridge more and then agreed to make the brass.

The bolt rifle reamer should cut a chamber a little more tighter in the body area. The AR15 is a tad more loose because of a semi auto requirement to insure chambering.

Lapua brass for the 6.5 Grendel is little hard to obtain at the moment so many are forming from 7.62x30 brass. Only difference is the 7.82x39 takes a large rifle primer and the Grendel of course a small rifle primer.

If you talk to my friend at LW I believe you can get a different twist.

Joe

15 April 2009, 09:18

Kabluewy

I'm still researching, so I don't yet know if a twist rate other than 1 in 8 is more suitable or not. You have confirmed some of the information I obtained from the reamer maker, and from my dumb gunsmith. I still have many questions, but since my gunsmith is putting together one for himself, and he ain't too smart, I'll talk him into experimenting with his assembly, and when he's got it down, mayby he can assemble one for me too.

Heck, he could swap out the parts, and I probably wouldn't know the difference.

The 6.5x39 improved (or whatever name it goes by) seems like a fun cartridge to me. I never did have much use for a 223 as it seems like a great cartridge for wounding deer to me.

Also, it seems like making the Grendel specs proprietary was a mistake, if that's what happened, which probably assured the success of the 6.8mm SPC. If so that's a shame.

Thanks again,
KB

15 April 2009, 19:59

starmetal

quote:
Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I'm still researching, so I don't yet know if a twist rate other than 1 in 8 is more suitable or not. You have confirmed some of the information I obtained from the reamer maker, and from my dumb gunsmith. I still have many questions, but since my gunsmith is putting together one for himself, and he ain't too smart, I'll talk him into experimenting with his assembly, and when he's got it down, mayby he can assemble one for me too.

Heck, he could swap out the parts, and I probably wouldn't know the difference.

The 6.5x39 improved (or whatever name it goes by) seems like a fun cartridge to me. I never did have much use for a 223 as it seems like a great cartridge for wounding deer to me.

Also, it seems like making the Grendel specs proprietary was a mistake, if that's what happened, which probably assured the success of the 6.8mm SPC. If so that's a shame.

Thanks again,
KB

You hit the nail on the head bout Grendel specs proprietary. That is exactly the nail in the coffin that has just about killed the company. I know all about the law suits, they lying, etc.. It's a mess. If everyone only knew the truth.

The 6.5x39 is a nice round, but not as efficient as the Grendel. I'd like to ask what action your gunsmith is converting.

I believe another twist some of the Grendel folks use is 1 in 9. If you plan on shooting the wide range of 6.5 bullets I suggest stay with the 1 in 8.

If your gunsmith is working up loads in Lapua brass tell him to be careful as this is tough brass and shows pressure signs later then say reformed 7.62x39 brass. At least this is true in the AR15. There are loads for both the Lapua and Wolf brass (which is basically reformed 7.62x39) on the Alexander website at www.alexanderarms.com. Look under the section titled 6.5 Grendel, then select reloading data. I can get you more too if needed.

Let me know where else I can help you.

Joe

15 April 2009, 21:24

Kabluewy

The action is a mini-mauser. The barrel ordered is 8" twist. Tougher brass is a good thing.

I spoke with my gunsmith, and told him I was only spoofing about his being dumb, and he's ok with the joke.

KB

16 April 2009, 01:02

starmetal

KB,

Check this out:

http://www.gunbroker.com/aucti...m.asp?Item=127017303

21 April 2009, 05:10

matt salm

If that 'mini' mauser is a cz527 in 7,62X39, that's a good choice. I built one for my daughter for her first deer rifle. I have the 6.5 Grendel 'bolt' reamer, and have used it on a couple AR's with good results.

21 April 2009, 09:18

Kabluewy

It's a Charles Daly mini-mauser, made in Zastava. Same as the Remington 799, and the Interarms. The action I have has been modified or upgraded, whatever you call it. I replaced the factory trigger with a Timney, and it has a Gentry three-position safety. According to Gentry it was made specifically for the mini-mauser, so it's supposedly not a modified '98 safety. I have replacment bottom metal for the action too - not that it really needs replacing, but I got it anyway. So, I have lots more money in this little action than it's really worth - I suppose - from the aspect that I have probably far exceeded what I could get for it on resale. So, perhaps I should just mentally adjust to the idea that I should just keep this rifle. That was my initial idea, so apparantly that isn't a problem.

I have a barrel on order from PacNor, and I discovered that they are using the Pacific Tool reamer with the .295 neck. That should work out well.

Anyway, I'm committed. I have one of the Leupold ultra light 3x9 scopes for it, and a slim stock. As I remember, the ballistics will be about like a 257 Roberts, so it should be an effective deer cartridge. I could probably get used to carrying it.

I also have a Ruger 77 MKII chambered in 7.62x39, and a 6.5mm LW stainless #1300 barrel, and I was thinking about what to do about that. I'll wait and see how this mini-mauser turns out, then think about it. I like the 7.62x39, but after all it's right on the edge of marginal as a deer or hog rifle. The 6.5 Grendel, and especially something like the 260 or 257 is a better choice, and the Ruger will bring a good resale price in it's factory configuration.

That darn Ruger feeds the Grendel really slick though, with the follower being special for that size cartridge, and the magazine is boxed off shorter, and the cartridges are four down staggered, not single stack as in the CZ, and the bolt face is cut to that size case head, and it's full control round feed. The mini-mauser is not CRF, but push feed, which is really OK, but the Ruger action is special. The CZ 527 is CRF, but it's single stack, and one has to use the magazine, since the one I use won't allow single feeding. The extractor won't snap over the rim, but only feeds properly from the magazine. Keeping up with an essential part that detaches from the rifle is a significant distraction for me, since I'm not used to it.

KB