The Accurate Reloading Forums
Strange happenings
04 February 2007, 18:06
bfrshooterStrange happenings
My friend tells me his .410 bolt action can not shoot 2-1/2" shells. The case will separate right at the brass every time leaving the plastic in the chamber. I told him it is a headspace problem and since it has a two piece bolt, I might be able to fix it.
The strange thing is that it will not do this with 3" shells and they work fine.
I don't have the gun so I can't check it. Why does it work with 3" shells?
The only other thing I can think of is that the chamber is polished too much and force against the crimp is pulling the shorter shell foreward.
Any ideas?
04 February 2007, 22:59
vanOff the top of my head,i would say that yes normally one should be able to shoot a 2 1/2" shell in the 3' chambers. If he has seperatiion all the time,then he might have heaspace problems.As with the 2 1/2" shell body has room to move forward under pressure and does seperate. But, the 3" doesn,t have a chamber room to move forward and stays together just enough to be extracted after firing.Tell him to try and take the 3" shell and after extraction pull the shell apart with his hands. But without seeing the cases and primers,i would say this might be his problem. van
04 February 2007, 23:30
malmquote:
Originally posted by van:
Off the top of my head,i would say that yes normally one should be able to shoot a 2 1/2" shell in the 3' chambers. If he has seperatiion all the time,then he might have heaspace problems.As with the 2 1/2" shell body has room to move forward under pressure and does seperate. But, the 3" doesn,t have a chamber room to move forward and stays together just enough to be extracted after firing.Tell him to try and take the 3" shell and after extraction pull the shell apart with his hands. But without seeing the cases and primers,i would say this might be his problem. van
The .410 headspaces off the rim. You could have 10 inches of chamber and it wouldn't matter, both should hold. I too would tend to agree with you bfrshooter that there is probably something wrong with the chamber and that the 3" shell is bridging that problem. If I couldn't see anything right off the bat, I would probably cast the entire chamber and see how easy it comes out. I don't believe it's a headspace problem though. If it were a headspace problem, you would see a "fat" rim.
05 February 2007, 00:15
jbhow about bad shells?
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05 February 2007, 01:02
bfrshooterThat is what confuses me, it does this with any 2-1/2" shell. (New factory loads.) He has loaded his 3" shells until they look like rags without a problem.
He gave me a box of 2-1/2" shells and I shot them in my gun with no trouble.
05 February 2007, 01:55
vanquote:
Originally posted by malm:
quote:
Originally posted by van:
Off the top of my head,i would say that yes normally one should be able to shoot a 2 1/2" shell in the 3' chambers. If he has seperatiion all the time,then he might have heaspace problems.As with the 2 1/2" shell body has room to move forward under pressure and does seperate. But, the 3" doesn,t have a chamber room to move forward and stays together just enough to be extracted after firing.Tell him to try and take the 3" shell and after extraction pull the shell apart with his hands. But without seeing the cases and primers,i would say this might be his problem. van
The .410 headspaces off the rim. You could have 10 inches of chamber and it wouldn't matter, both should hold. I too would tend to agree with you bfrshooter that there is probably something wrong with the chamber and that the 3" shell is bridging that problem. If I couldn't see anything right off the bat, I would probably cast the entire chamber and see how easy it comes out. I don't believe it's a headspace problem though. If it were a headspace problem, you would see a "fat" rim.
Never seen a 10" chamber in any gun!An the rim would not necessarly be fat,one could have a fat rim,with a new gun that had a jugged chamber.
06 February 2007, 00:07
Jim White[/QUOTE]Never seen a 10" chamber in any gun!An the rim would not necessarly be fat,one could have a fat rim,with a new gun that had a jugged chamber.[/QUOTE]
I've seen lots of guns with 10"+ chambers. They're called artillery pieces. If you have a head space problem with a .410 of course you will get a fat rim. It's not a solid rim just a fold in the brass so it has got to expand to fill the gap. Jugged chamber? I've seen jug chokes in a shotgun but never a jugged chamber. Jim
99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.
"O" = zero
NRA life member
06 February 2007, 00:24
malmquote:
Originally posted by van:
Never seen a 10" chamber in any gun!An the rim would not necessarly be fat,one could have a fat rim,with a new gun that had a jugged chamber.
You taught gunsmithing where? Let me rephrase this a little different. The gun could be ALL chamber and it wouldn't matter. It headspaces OFF THE RIM!
06 February 2007, 02:32
vanNever said the headspace wasn,t off the rim!egg shaped would be a better word than jugged. Whats your claim to fame!!What are your credentials,besides appearing to know all, just wondered!
06 February 2007, 02:47
malmquote:
Originally posted by van:
Never said the headspace wasn,t off the rim!egg shaped would be a better word than jugged. Whats your claim to fame!!What are your credentials,besides appearing to know all, just wondered!
I was curious as to where you taught gunsmithing. You read and comprehend things like my first wife.
My claim to fame is knowing the difference between headspace issues of a .410, and a problem within a chamber wherein the plastic, or, paper hull becomes separated from the brass.
06 February 2007, 03:31
vanSince you mentioned your first wife,i can see why you kknow about seperation! She knows a lot more than you give her credit for,and you can give yourself all that you need and more. Smart woman!If, you are a gunsmith, just wondered if you charge for your work,or send it out,or both?
06 February 2007, 03:46
b beyerVan, do yourself a favor and quit while you are only loosing by this much.
Bob
06 February 2007, 03:52
vanWhat about the other,within this dicusssion? Losing what may i ask,at least i have enough pride to put up my profile,and have never had a comback in 42yrs of gunsmithing with some of the biggest in the industry!! Maybe your right,some will never admit the downfalls they have!Home James! thank you b beyer for clueing me in on others!
06 February 2007, 04:42
duikermanVan
When it comes to folks that post while full of beans, you come very close to the top.
If you can make a living as a gunsmith then anyone can!
06 February 2007, 04:54
vanAnd what else do you shovel duikerman? Your far from an expert,or are you one?
06 February 2007, 06:45
fyjMan, I’m starting to feel like a Christian Scientist with appendicitis reading this new battle on here!
With duikerman fighting with this jerk it’s hard to decide who to root for. Oh well, as much as this hurts...GO GET HIM DUKE, malm and I have your back!
06 February 2007, 11:20
CustomstoxVan, what happened to your post on shotgun reloading that you started about high brass? It was the one where you claimed that high brass shells were far different than low brass shells. You got a lot of responses and all said you didn't know your hat from a hole in the ground and now it is deleted. There was not any name calling, just folks setting you straight so I am sure a moderator did not delete it. Did you delete that????? I did go looking for it and it is nowhere to be found. It was a good thread as knowledgeable people responded to you and it was informative as it showed that there was no significance to the high brass, contrary to what you claimed. It would have been good to leave up for newbies to get some education, although at your expense.
07 February 2007, 13:01
vanI did not delete nothing!!The info, i had provided at that time came from P.O.Ackley and others in his book If all of you know more than him,my hats off to you all. There are some on this forum that thik that what they say is written in granite,and if they want it that way fine. If they,you,or anyone else joined this forum for knowlege why? It seems to me most of the ones that are challeged about there opinion,just know what they read form sports magazines. I did not enter this forum to fight with anyone!! But there are a few,that i take serious when they reput my reputation. And they are not gunsmith!! I,m not always right and we all learn from day to day,and any that say they don,t are liars and fools. I will admit when i am wrong,which in thihs trade we can,t accept that,for someones life could be in the interm. I will apologize to anyone,but on the other hand i will not be attack in the way i was. Those that did,don,t like it nor do I!! And i don,t like anybody whom eats carrots all the time,for there ears grow to big!If i have fluffed some feathers,so be it. Let this go by the wayside,and tomorrow is another day,if we all can do this,then fine??!!They only perfect person i heard of they put on the cross. Respectfully to all
07 February 2007, 18:56
vapodogquote:
The info, i had provided at that time came from P.O.Ackley and others in his book If all of you know more than him,my hats off to you all.
In all seriousness there's a lot of folks that post here on AR that I'd listen to ahead of the writings of P. O. Ackley and company.
If Ackley were alive and posting on AR there would be several guys cutting him to shreads!, and justifiably so!
He's the last guy I'd want to use as a reference for anything I posted here.
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07 February 2007, 21:08
fyjquote:
Originally posted by van:
I did not delete nothing!!The info, i had provided at that time came from P.O.Ackley and others in his book If all of you know more than him,my hats off to you all. There are some on this forum that thik that what they say is written in granite,and if they want it that way fine. If they,you,or anyone else joined this forum for knowlege why? It seems to me most of the ones that are challeged about there opinion,just know what they read form sports magazines. I did not enter this forum to fight with anyone!! But there are a few,that i take serious when they reput my reputation. And they are not gunsmith!! I,m not always right and we all learn from day to day,and any that say they don,t are liars and fools. I will admit when i am wrong,which in thihs trade we can,t accept that,for someones life could be in the interm. I will apologize to anyone,but on the other hand i will not be attack in the way i was. Those that did,don,t like it nor do I!! And i don,t like anybody whom eats carrots all the time,for there ears grow to big!If i have fluffed some feathers,so be it. Let this go by the wayside,and tomorrow is another day,if we all can do this,then fine??!!They only perfect person i heard of they put on the cross. Respectfully to all
Great piece of software called “SpellChecker†available here. Also has a grammar checking feature and works across all programs universally. It’s available for both PC’s and Mac’s.
sales@rainmakerinc.com
07 February 2007, 21:19
malmquote:
Originally posted by fyj:
Great piece of software called “SpellChecker†available here. Also has a grammar checking feature and works across all programs universally. It’s available for both PC’s and Mac’s.
sales@rainmakerinc.com
Wonder if they make a "fact checker" as well?
07 February 2007, 21:53
fyjquote:
Originally posted by malm:
quote:
Originally posted by fyj:
Great piece of software called “SpellChecker†available here. Also has a grammar checking feature and works across all programs universally. It’s available for both PC’s and Mac’s.
sales@rainmakerinc.com
Wonder if they make a "fact checker" as well?
They did at one time but it was crashing so many peoples computers that they stopped selling it!
08 February 2007, 13:01
vanKnew it had to be a salesman in there. Can,t do anything else but tell people what they should do and buy. Schooling and a job is nice,for some whom spend time here all day,must be on welfare and letting others pay there way!?
08 February 2007, 18:46
b beyerVan, how about 40 years working for Verizon, figure that gets me a few minutes off. Your ideas are really a bit strange to say the least. Your either paranoid as hell or just a plain jerk. Who is trying to sell anything?
Bob
08 February 2007, 20:56
fyjquote:
Originally posted by van:
Knew it had to be a salesman in there. Can,t do anything else but tell people what they should do and buy. Schooling and a job is nice,for some whom spend time here all day,must be on welfare and letting others pay there way!?
And you’re a poet also! “Dayâ€...â€Wayâ€...that was brilliant how you got that to rhyme like that and still get your point across.