Blaser System

04 March 2003, 16:44

N E 450 No2

Slingster, I recently spoke at great length, two meetings, with a USA Blaser rep and 2 "guys" from the factory. They are supposed to make iron sighted bbls and the European scope mount available to us in the good old USA. [I already have a European scope mount [Big Grin]

. Mike, I have "experience" with several Blaser recievers and several barrels. I like the "system" very much. I have had NO problems in the firing of several hundred rounds. One night while shooting my 308 sporter bbl [the skinny hunting bbl] at the range I fired 3 rounds on a 3/4 inch paster. I then removed the scope from the bbl, then removed the bbl from the receiver. I re-installed the bbl and the scope and fired 3 more rounds on another paster. All three rounds hit the paster, I had 4 witnesses. I hunted with a wood stock Blaser in Alaska for several days in constant rain. The wood never warped, or turned "white". You cannot even tell the rifle even got wet. The only rust was the hex heads on the scope rings.
I have a 223, 308, 300Win Mag and a 375H&H bbls. I have shot two 300 WBY's another 375 H&H, and a 416 Rem Mag with iron sights and scope. The 416 had the recoil reducer and I recommend it. If I did not hunt with doubles I would have a 416 Blaser. [May get one any way [Big Grin]

]
One of the nice things about a Blaser is if you shoot a bbl out, you do not have to "make" a trip to the gunsmith, just order another bbl.
Besides Weatherby Factory rifles, Blasers are the only Belted Magnums that have worked, ie fed, extracted, and ejected 100% of the time for me.
This includes several controled round feed and custom rifles.

05 March 2003, 05:30

Slingster

quote:
Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Slingster, I recently spoke at great length, two meetings, with a USA Blaser rep and 2 "guys" from the factory. They are supposed to make iron sighted bbls and the European scope mount available to us in the good old USA. [I already have a European scope mount .

My dealer has also talked with Sigarms at length over several months, and the story he got was that only dealers who bought $40K+ from them a year were allowed to special order the European items (e.g., iron-sighted barrels, QD and rail scope mounts, etc.) And when my dealer talked to the Blaser people directly, they were amazed that Sigarms would restrict their products like that. Perhaps Sigarms is softening its stance with repeated badgering by the likes of you and my dealer, and maybe questions from Blaser itself? I sure hope so!

[ 03-04-2003, 20:33: Message edited by: Slingster ]

05 March 2003, 06:21

mho

Guys, a while back we talked about the general futility in trying to get Blaser barrels (open sights or not)from Europe to the US on a private basis. So we'll leave that part for now.

But if there is a problem with getting Blaser "Europe-only" scope mounts in the US, I'm sure we could could figure out something there. Those parts are not controlled in any way, i.e. anybody can buy them, and I doubt their import into the States is controlled. A word of caution: as you should all know by now, Europe is not the cheapest place to buy firearms related items [Roll Eyes]

I was not even aware that Blaser mounts were different in the States than in Europe??? Anybody care to describe the differences??

- mike

P.S. This obviously also goes for other non-controlled items - stocks, say...

[ 03-04-2003, 21:22: Message edited by: mho ]

05 March 2003, 11:33

<Mike Dettorre>

By the way, Aleko Jensen of Heritage Arms who posts here (heritagearms.net) is a big Blaser Distributor and doesn't seem to have trouble getting stuff.

You mat want to give him a ring or an email.

05 March 2003, 18:33

N E 450 No2

The "European" Blaser mounts are Quick-Detach. Instead of the mount tightening down with a hex wrench, they use a thumb lever. I paid the same price for them as the "US" mounts. My dealer is working on getting iron sighted bbls. When that happends I'll let ya'll know.

05 March 2003, 18:48

Savage99

I looked at one and for a guy who grew up with Springfields and M 70 Winchesters that straight pull action gives me the creeps.

I can own two fine 70's for the price of one Blazer and I would not trade one 70 for two Blazers.

Sorry to rain on your Blazer parade.

05 March 2003, 19:47

Heritage Arms

There is nothing in the Blaser European catalouge than I cannot get my hands on. Anyone who wants iron sighted barrels should contact me my shipment is comming around April 1st, I will tell you that most of my iron sighted standard contour barrels sell out faster than the smooth, standard contour barrels, especially in 375 H&H and 30 06, 9,3 x 62 mm seems to have a following too. We can also have the factory fit iron sights to any exsisting R 93.

My website has an excellent selection of Blaser accessories, please email me at alekojensen@heritagearms.net if there are any questions regarding my inventory. There is also a link to Blaser.de to see what is avalible.

Thanks Mike, Cheers Aleko

06 March 2003, 02:37

<Mike Dettorre>

Savage 99,

Why?...What is it that bothers you?...is is just style? or is it a technical thing?

Mike

06 March 2003, 03:15

Savage99

It seems to be a straight pull where I can't tell if the action locks or not?

I feel the same way about other actions where I am not sure if they lock up or not.

I did talk with the owner of a small shop in CT who sells them and he was very high on them. He also sold the Sauer 202 and discounted both quite a bit. For some reason he prefered the Blazer. He is a shotgun guy however and does not know much about rifles. I doubt he even shoots rifles at all like many of us here do.

I liked the workmanship on the Sauer. I don't see much advantage to me in a switch barrel gun. It's hard enough to get a rifle to shoot and also stay sighted in. Being a switch or takedown cannot improve on consistancy.

I now know that some in the Scandanavian countries are limited to the number of gun but switch barrels are not counted. So to them it's a benefit and that changes things.

I have only worked the action on a Blazer and never fired one. It's not likely that I ever will. I never have seen one on the range either.

06 March 2003, 04:13

mho

quote:
Originally posted by Savage99:
It seems to be a straight pull where I can't tell if the action locks or not?

I feel the same way about other actions where I am not sure if they lock up or not.

I will hand this to Savage99, if for some reason you don't manage to lock up the Blaser bolt, when you press the trigger, you'll get a misfire (click). Safety feature.

I have heard people complain about misfires with Blasers, and the above reason is the only one I can think of. Has happened to me a couple of times on the range over the last decade. In particular with reloaded/necksized ammo - chambers just a tad harder.

I caught onto the fact, and when I'm in the field and chamber a round in my Blaser - remember, the Blaser will allow me to carry a loaded round in total safety, so I chamber one when I start hunting - I just whack the bolt handle a tad with the butt of my hand (is that the right term?). That way I'm sure the bolt is locked. If you know what to look for, you can see the failure to lock up fairly clearly, and you can feel when the bolt goes into battery properly. This has just become second nature, so I'm not worried about it anymore.

Any rifle - not least the Blaser - will require a certain "behavioural" pattern - e.g. "chamber round, put on safety". When you get a rifle that works differently to what you are used to, training is called for. The Blaser is no different. Worst "problem": some people are not aware that when you reload the R93 after having fired a round, you have to decock - just like you would have to put on the safety in a "normal" rifle. For some reason some people forget this, and walk around with a cocked rifle... You tell me, is this a problem with the rifle or a problem with the people handling it? I really don't believe this is fundamentally different to any other rifle, but some people seem to be less cognizant of what they do with their firearms than others. I suppose it has to do with training, shooting and handling your firearm frequently, plus THINKING.

Just like I try always to test whether my safety is on when I use a "normal" rifle, I always try to check whether my Blaser is uncocked (as I intend it to be). You can do so by feel very easily (cocking piece gives a bit when the action is not cocked). Naturally, you can also just look for that BIG RED dot that tells you COCKED!! But looking is difficult in the dark and in narrow confines, so the fact that feeling is enough is great.

FWIW - Mike

[ 03-05-2003, 19:33: Message edited by: mho ]

06 March 2003, 05:24

Andre Mertens

Savage99, as Mike said wisely, every system needs familiarity. In fact, being used to a lever gun and going to a bolt-action is just the same. About switch-barrel rifles, you just named the 2, i.e. R93 and Sauer 202, that are the most accurate out of the box and changing bbl./caliber on a Blaser doesn't affect POI at all (the 202 needs re-zeroing). I own most actions : Rem 700, Win 70, K98, Ruger 77, FN semi-auto, double rifle, R93 and 202 and when going hunting, I mostly grab one the 2 last ones. You owe it to yourself to handle and shoot them before condemning. Me think you'd be surprised and may (see, I'm remaining conservative [Wink]

) revise your opinion...

21 March 2003, 04:09

deersmeller

There are interesting features on the Blaser, the most obvious being the scope mount [Smile]

available on all barrels sold in Europe.
I hear that the trigger is great too [Smile]

.

However there are three things I find hard to accept:
- the aluminum mechanism [Confused]

,
- the flimsy "umbrella" like bolt elements [Mad]

and
- the noise it makes when you close it [Mad]

.

YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE, I look forward to reading them [Wink]

.

[ 03-22-2003, 18:10: Message edited by: deersmeller ]

21 March 2003, 04:52

Orion 1

quote:
Originally posted by Savage99:
I don't see much advantage to me in a switch barrel gun. It's hard enough to get a rifle to shoot and also stay sighted in. Being a switch or takedown cannot improve on consistancy.

That's where you are wrong. The indexing system of barrel to bolt lockup and having the scope mounts on the barrel instead of the receiver reduces the number of planes that have to align from four to two when compared the Blaser system to a conventional Mauser type rifle.

A Blaser rifle WILL go back to its original zero after you reassemble both the barrel to the receiver and the scope mount to the barrel. People here have deomnstrated it repeatedly. It is a system fundamentally different to a Mauser system and it seems you can't accept that difference.

You are free to dislike the rifle for any reason you want, just don't expect those who understand these rifles, and those who actually own them to accept this statement

quote:
Being a switch or takedown cannot improve on consistancy

[ 03-20-2003, 19:57: Message edited by: ksduckhunter ]

22 March 2003, 16:18

N E 450 No2

My Blaser R93's have always gone back to zero when re-assembled. I have also taken scopes on and off with no loss of zero. This is with the US type mount. I have a European mount but have not used it yet.

23 March 2003, 10:09

mho

quote:
Originally posted by mho:
Any rifle - not least the Blaser - will require a certain "behavioural" pattern - e.g. "chamber round, put on safety". When you get a rifle that works differently to what you are used to, training is called for. The Blaser is no different. Worst "problem": some people are not aware that when you reload the R93 after having fired a round, you have to decock - just like you would have to put on the safety in a "normal" rifle. For some reason some people forget this, and walk around with a cocked rifle... You tell me, is this a problem with the rifle or a problem with the people handling it? I really don't believe this is fundamentally different to any other rifle, but some people seem to be less cognizant of what they do with their firearms than others. I suppose it has to do with training, shooting and handling your firearm frequently, plus THINKING.

I have been wondering whether I should post this, but I ended up doing so. We shall see if you think that I'm off the deep end?? If I'm preaching, just tell me to take a hike.

I made the statement above just a couple of weeks back. A few days later, I went to the range with my friend - who shoots a Blaser, and has worked with it for quite a few years now. I much admire my friend, he is intelligent, and he easily puts enough time into shooting to be considered experienced.

Then I noticed, that every time he (and numerous other R93 owners) had fired a shot, he simply pulled back the "bolt" of the R93, in preparation for the next shot. Nothing wrong with that, after all this was just on the range... EXCEPT... I don't know about you guys, but I believe that safety procedures should be developed at the range, because that is where you have the chance to make them become second nature. Just like I believe that a "normal" bolt action rifle should always be put onto safe when you chamber a round, an R93 should be decocked before you decide to chamber the next round. If you forget either, chances are that sooner or later you'll run around with a loaded rifle off safe. Obviously, there are times when one should not follow the above safety rules (R93 or "normal" rifle), mostly in situations where a quick follow-up shot is needed. I don't think that invalidates the general safety principle, though.

OK, having touched upon this subject with my friend, I discovered what I *think* is the reason that he operated his rifle in this (to my mind) less safe mode. He had trouble operating the bolt, in particular he had trouble operating the straight pull mechanism when the gun was uncocked. This after having used a Blaser for quite some years.

I don't know about you R93 owners, but my friend was operating the bolt pretty much as described by Blaser and their commercial representatives. (You'll have to bear with me, a photo or two would do wonders here, but in the absence of that I'll have to try to explain what I mean). To open the R93 bolt when on safe, 1) push the safety/cocking/decocking lever slightly with the tip of your thumb, and 2) pull back the operating handle with the rest of your of your fingers. There it is, as easy as 1) - 2).

Definitely possible, but has the following disadvantages: a) there are 2 finger movements that need to be coordinated, and b) the slight tipping of the cocking lever is too easily turned into a cocking movement, leaving you with a rifle loaded and cocked, as opposed to loaded and uncocked, if you don't have the right feel for when enough force has been applied to the lever to allow the operating handle to be withdrawn.

All of this should not really be a problem, because after all, you see the BIG RED dot telling you the rifle is now cocked. BUT, even if you uncocked the rifle afterwards, you would have been through "loaded and cocked" state as opposed to only "loaded and uncocked". (Sorry to preach, but see what I mean?)

OK, obviously you R93 owners have operated your guns sufficiently to figure how easy it can be done in total safety. Still just in case, let me describe how I operate my R93 without the separate 1) - 2) finger movement, and how this makes life both safer and a LOT easier.

When I want the open my uncocked R93, I place my open hand (four fingers together, thumb sticking out to the left - for a right-handed shooter), palm down such that the web of my hand (correct expession? anyway the root of your thumb) is positioned just on the cocking lever in its uncocked position, 4 fingers on operating handle. (Took a long time to explain, not exactly rocket science [Wink]

). Now simply close your hand around the cocking lever/operating handle and pull your arm back. The root of your thumb will activate the cocking lever just sufficiently to allow the operating handle to be pulled back, thus unlocking the bolt for operation. It is the smoothest, easiest and safest way I have found to operate my R93. If you don't do it this way, give it a try a couple of times. Simply closing your hand is so intuitive that I find it a lot easier than the 1) - 2) coordinated movement of thumb and fingers.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now, sorry if I have wasted your time.

- mike