Source for Mauser actions?

02 October 2004, 05:26

Does anyone know of a source for Mauser actions? Looking for something in the standard long action. Are these preferable to a new M70 CRF? Thanks for the info.

02 October 2004, 06:15

ramrod340

Daly is importing an action that looks very much like the old MKX. Seen some that looked great others were rounded a little. Last I checked you can get the Barreled action Daly for $268-$289. Actions $225-250. There are also some other new Mausers being imported. If you buy military plan to spend as much or more to get it converted. I've been able to buy all the used MKXs I want often with scope for less than $300.

02 October 2004, 06:37

AnotherAZWriter

I am no expert either, but I do know the Mod 70 is inherently more accurate than the old 98...

02 October 2004, 07:27

Mark

.... So what he means to say is that if you are building a bench rest gun use a new Model 70 (or IMHO prefereably a rem 700) action.

Or one of many new actions that may be more consistent than a 60 year old piece of metal.

If you are hunting with it, or just looking at it a lot, use whatever action you want. Blue has written some good advice on this.

02 October 2004, 07:47

z1r

I would think long and hard before getting a Daly Action. I would just spend the time & money converting a good military action rather than spending it fixing < !--color--> a CD action.

02 October 2004, 07:51

Zach

Quote:

I am no expert either, but I do know the Mod 70 is inherently more accurate than the old 98...

You certainly are no expert. The model 70 may be stiffer but as they come from the factory they seem to require as much massaging as a 98 would to be accurate these days.

02 October 2004, 11:55

cummins cowboy

just pick up a CZ 550 and be done with it if you prefer the mauser style setup

02 October 2004, 16:40

schromf

Quote:

I am no expert either, but I do know the Mod 70 is inherently more accurate than the old 98...

How do you figure? They are about six of one half a dozen of the other, niether are a real benchrest gun but I have seen some very accurate rifles built out of each. Niether of these are comparable to a Hall, Bat, Stoole action for accuracy.

The 98 and the Model 70 are too similar in design to get big differences in performance.

Custom guns: Build what you like because it is what you want, not because you think you want to sell it, and it doesn't matter what action you start with. Old mausers usually have poor resale value. This is mitagated by amount of work. quality of work, and who did the work, some can have very good resale value, get a custom Griffon and Howe, your dollars are secure, get Bubba gunsmith who hacks up mausers on his kitchen table and you got a loser.

In principle your better off starting with commercial actions, some original commercial mausers have fantastic prices nowdays. Military actions are usually less desirable. Not a hard and fast rule cause there are certain select actions that hold their value well, G33/40's, small ring in almost any flavor fare well. Remember the more were made and survived the less value they have. And certain military actions are highly desirable. Almost all of the BRNO rifles are well respected, and Oberdorf actions of certain years, with export crests are also good.

There are certain versions such as the Yugo's that are a real tough resale. just not very desirable, the quality was dodgie on the originals ( rough poorly finished ). This compared to a Peru or Venezuela you got a lot better odds with these, than a Yugo. And little details matter a lot, does the bolt and the action have matching serial numbers? Did you spend the extra dollars on expensive mounts or did you slap on a set of Redfields or Weavers.

In general all custom gun work is a loosing proposition. But time, your cost of ownership, and smart decisions when you build it can mitigate that.

02 October 2004, 17:32

AnotherAZWriter

Well, for starters, the Mod 70 has a a faster lock time. It is a stiffer action; in fact, a 98 is about as flimsy as they come.

02 October 2004, 18:36

schromf

Quote:

Functionally I think that it's a choice of Ford or Chevy.

Bingo, exactly what I have been saying.

From the new Winchesters I have seen in the racks, I wouldn't have one, I have seen some real nasty slip shod workmanship.

I have heard it is improving, I frankly lost interest a couple of years ago after going through 5-6 and couldn't find one without obvious defects. I should spend the time revisit this, but it isn't one my immediate radar. If I found a shop with a 404 Jeff, in the Model 70 I would take the time but that will be a rare occasion I will walk in a see one of those to check out.

02 October 2004, 18:34

JefferyDenmark

The XO concurs

Ginger or Mary Ann

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

02 October 2004, 18:21

Oldsarge

I think this discussion has wondered off into the woods. Bob wanted to know about CRF actions. He said so. If you are calling for CRF, you aren't planning on shooting ground squirrels in the next time zone. .2 MOA isn't what you want CRF for, you want reliability--combat style, DGR reliability. Now what is the difference between the M98 and the M70? Well, if you want to mount a scope, you need to either change the flag safety on the M98 or mount the scope clumsily high. If you are shooting heavy calibers, the M70 has a larger recoil lug. Both will build up into a beautiful Monster Slayer equally well and both will take work. Are you a redwhiteandblue American who jes' gotta have a Winchester or a traditionalist who gets down on one knee and touches his forehead at the mention of the name Paul Mauser? Functionally I think that it's a choice of Ford or Chevy. Wa-hey!

02 October 2004, 18:16

z1r

It's a fact that the Mauser is pretty non-rigid. The model 70 action is very stiff in comparison. And while lock time is certainly helpful there are other factors I'd put ahead of lock time.

That said, if I wanted to be assured of a good shootin rifle I'd have it built. Read through some of the posts here and you'll see that while the 70 may be stiff, QC is spotty as with many other factory offerings these days. Scope holes are off center, receiver threads too. By the time you get one trued up there isn't that much diffrence it what it costs to have a nice Mauser built. Whenever I hear about things like locktime mentioned on hunting rifles I chuckle. I have to think about how many dead game animals were felled with firearms that had locktimes that would be considered slow motion today. The folks shooting them just did what most folks today don't do; they shot their rifles, practiced with them, were familiar with how they worked. There is no substitue for practice.

02 October 2004, 18:02

schromf

How much faster is a Model 70's locktime than a tuned mauser? Real Number. Are we talking Milliseconds here?

I don't see the 98's as a flimsy action, what part of the 98 action are you specifically refering to?

Winchester was sole manufacturer made Model 70's, Mausers were built by a lot of different manufacturers and depending on who made them they can be a mixed bag.

But take a good BRNO VZ-24 post war manufacture, or a FN post war, and they are every bit as good as the Model 70. I like them both but if I am going to build a tack driver I wouldn't start with either one, too similar same issues with both actions.

Frankly if I want a very accurate lower end factory rifle I would use a Rem 700. Much more modern design and much better odds of sucess building superior accuracy. There are much better actions above these they just all cost at least twice as much. In the mini arms race of benchrest guns stiffness is very important. Most are single shots and the mag well cutout in the bottom is a definate design issue when building these types of guns. Yeah locktime comes into play, but these are not incremental improvements, as in the 98 vrs Mod 70.

I have a Hall action rifle and there isn't much to compare between either the 98 or the 70, the similarity stops at they are both rifle actions.

I have a couple of smiths that have built several custom rifles for me, if I brought either one a 98 or a 70 and wanted me to build a tack driver they would beat me with it trying to knock some sense into me. Niether of these rifle actions are suitable for a rifle that you are hoping to shoot routine .2 MOA. Winchester is hardly represented at all in the benchrest world, Remington and Savage are the commercial actions to beat.

The Model 70 vrs 98 arguement is we are haggling over shades of grey, when there are black and white solutions to accuracy.

02 October 2004, 18:57

AnotherAZWriter

Schromf:

you make some good points; the actions you point out are all better accuracy-wise than the Mod 70.

I just don't see anything the 98 has that the Win70 doesn't.

02 October 2004, 19:11

schromf

And I agree with that statement 100%.

If it was me, I would go out and try a couple, and see what I liked the best, and see what I could find at a reasonable price.

I personally just got a Model 70 ( old) and a BRNO ZKK-600 which is a modified 98, they are both fine actions for their purpose, a good hunting rifle, but even after I lap and true these actions, with new barrels I don't expect better than .5 MOA with either one

03 October 2004, 10:38

browningguy

I've got a 275 Rigby custom done on a VZ-24 action, gunsmith trued and lapped the lugs, a little polishing and it's been a very fine rifle. It was the most expensive at about $800.

I've also got a 458 Win. custom built on a Charles Daly action (Douglas 24" barrel), now if people tell you they are crap it's only because they don't own one. They are not polished as well as a true custom but since mine has a KG Gunkote finish you don't notice that anyway. Mine required about 15 minutes with a dremel tool to work on the follower to make sure it fed 100% and that's it. A finer shooting big bore you won't find. Mine shoots .8's consistantly at 100 yd.s using Federal factory ammo. This one was under $600 to have put together, the only thing the 'smith did was screw the barrel in, a good bedding job in the Boyd's JRS laminate stock and the sights.

I've also got a lightweight 8x57 pre-war German sporter on a '98 action that shoots as good as the day it was built.

None of these are bench rest accurate (well maybe the 458, I'd put it up against any big bore rifle)but they all shoot very acceptable hunting groups. The 275 shoots factory ammo into around 1" at 100 yd.s and tomorrow I'm trying 3 new handloads to see what they will do.

Bottom line, I don't think you can go wrong with a Mauser action. The VZ's cost a little more for the surface grinding and polishing they need, but even with a new Model 70 you're still going to have to get the lugs lapped and the action trued (unless you get incredibly lucky and find one that Winchester accidently built to spec), that costs the same not matter which action you use.

03 October 2004, 07:17

Wstrnhuntr

One of my favorite rifles is a M-98 that I found in a gunshop for $125.00. At that time it was a sporterized 8X57 with the original step barrel. It came with the bolt altered, redfield scope base & rings and a buheler saftey.

Since then Ive had the action reworked and a new barrel installed and added a better stock. Deals like that are out there, lits of millsurp Mausers have already had the basic sporterizing done on them and dont nessecarily need to cost an arm and a leg to aquire. Going that route, theres nothing that the M-70 has that the mauser doesnt! and Ive found that M-98 bbls and other accesories are far more plentifull than any other and generally can be had at better prices.

Its true that you may not get exactly what you want that way, but who says a guy will with one of the more modern actions? Its a personal choice.

As for accuracy, the workmanship means more than which action is used. As Jack Belks signature used to read, S3=A.

03 October 2004, 07:18

kbobb

Thanks for all the replies. I'm just looking for a hunting rifle in 375 H&H that wouldn't break the bank. I have learned a bit in this discussion and it seems like a wiser move (for me) to go with a CZ (BRNO) or if I can find it a good M70. Had a bad experience with a M70 a few yrs ago. No one could get < 5" grps at 100 out of it. I think I'll look at CZ. Thanks a lot.

03 October 2004, 07:41

z1r

If you want a .375 the cz550 is very nice. But, don't rule out the 98 style action. There are lots of Whitworths out there already chambered as such for real good prices. just keep your eye's peeled. Another thought is the MRC action. they will be coming out with the H&H length action someday.

03 October 2004, 07:56

Oldsarge

I'll second the Whitworth! Mine does thumbnail sized groups and has the fastest barrel I ever heard of, 300 gr. Nosler PT's at 2755 fps! Take a little more time looking around and even if you have to pay another $100 for a good Whitworth, don't let it scare you. They are a wonder. I'm having mine buried with me! (Who knows, I might need it . . .)

03 October 2004, 09:05

Fjold

The current MRC long action will take the 375 H&H round. MRC built their actions a little longer than the standards.

03 October 2004, 10:53

z1r

I'm glad your CD action worked for you. Mine proved to be less than satisfactory as was the CD customer service. I've since spoken to a couple of other folks who have had similar problems to mine.

04 October 2004, 07:29

tsturm

Quote:

I am no expert either, but I do know the Mod 70 is inherently more accurate than the old 98...

Right, Shure

04 October 2004, 10:29

stepchild 2

AZ,
My flimsy 1908 Brazilian, rebarreled with a Shilen #3,chambered in 22/250AI fired a .263" group just yesterday, your turn!
Stepchild