303 re-barrel

03 June 2008, 11:36

steve box

303 re-barrel

I have a #1 Mk111 SMLE Enfield action. What choices do I have for a Re barrel, is there another caliber I can use with it?

03 June 2008, 18:24

vigillinus

About anything with .303 head size, some may required magazine alterations.

03 June 2008, 19:11

craigster

30-40 Krag would probably be the easiest. I've also seen conversions to 444 Marlin and 45-70.

03 June 2008, 20:19

Rusty Marlin

.405 win.
.375 nitro express 2 1/2 flanged.
.38-55 win

04 June 2008, 03:22

enfieldspares

There are various 303 "wildcat" cartridges that became standard factory classics in Australia and elsewhere. 303/25 and 303/270 being just two. The rifle was also converted by the Turkish Army into 8mm Mauser calibre!

04 June 2008, 05:33

Tex21

quote:
Originally posted by enfieldspares:
The rifle was also converted by the Turkish Army into 8mm Mauser calibre!

How'd they do that?

04 June 2008, 10:47

303Guy

I have asked the same question. I am interested in the 6.5 Swede. It and the 7.5 Swiss has the same rim thickness but a larger body. Other than that, I like the 57mm Mauser case. I have asked tnekkcc and Bill Leeper for their opinions under "Cutting a New Chamber??". Mine is the slightly stronger No.4 Mk1 action.

I also want to know how the Turks did their conversion. I didn't realise the 8x57 was in the same chamber pressure range. (Although I have picked up some fired case that showed no expansion at the pressure ring).

04 June 2008, 13:12

enfieldspares

In England there were commercially produced Enfield sporters in 8mm Mauser - I have seen and handled one - I've also owned a No4, believe it or not, also commercially produced in the stumpy and "chunky" 8x56!

But for the Turkish Enfield Mauser see here:

quote:
The 1930s Conversion

Turkey must have had several Gew88 rifles remaining after the first world war. The Turks hardly ever discarded any weapon, and rebuilt or altered them repeatedly in sometimes bizarre ways. Many Gew88s where re-arsenaled by the Turkish. Some retained their original configuration of straight stock, barrel jacket, etc. with the only change of having the familiar Turkish Quarter Moon stamped on the receiver, yet leaving German/Prussian markings still intact. Many have later replacement parts obtained from Czechoslovakia. These parts will be marked with a tiny z in a cirle marking. Other Gew88 rifles were drastically changed though. Many types of rifles were refurbished in the mid to late 1930s as a standardization effort by the Turks. Resourceful as the Turks were, they even combined British Enfield rifles captured at Gallipoli with M1893 Turkish Barrels and forends during the same 1930s standardization period. See Thomas Thompson's picture of his "Enfauser" below. This standardization to the .323 diameter 8mm caliber is why we encounter the 88/05/38 Turkish Commission Mausers. Using old Gew 88s obtained from Prussia/Germany years before for the war, the Turkish Arsenal in Ankara converted many of the Gew88s. This involved grinding down the receiver, removing the old markings and adding their own markings on the receiver ring and other parts. They discarded the old barrel/cooling jacket and installed a new heavier G98 style stepped barrel in 8x57 Mauser in the standard .323 bore diameter. Stocks where replaced with the M1903 to M98 style stocks with rounded pistol grip and bolt disassembly disc of the 98 series Mausers. These conversions took place in the mid to late 1930s, but most seem to have been done in 1938. I have received a report of a 1910 dated example though with this conversion. FROM: http://www.texastradingpost.com/m88/turkconversion.html

Two of these odd looking weapons were offered for sale in the 1990s at the auction of the Charnwood Ordnance Collection in the UK. I had the catalogue, which is how I know about the existence of such conversions, but did not attend the sale.

06 June 2008, 06:03

Mark

I am not certain, but I am thinking the 30-30 may work relatively easily as well.

06 June 2008, 09:30

steve box

Hey Guys, thanks for the imput. It seems there are many ways to go. For some reason I kinda like 25-303. What ever I deside I'm sure it will grab some looks at the range.

06 June 2008, 10:27

Bill Leeper

303Guy,
I would have no problem with a conversion to 6.5x55. Pressures would have to be kept on the low side though or brass life would suffer. The 7x57R would be a possibilty for a #4.
Actually, I like the 303 just fine with the 30/40 Krag as an option. Regards, Bill.

06 June 2008, 10:54

303Guy

Thanks for that Bill. You are quite right - the 303 is just fine as it is. Like steve box, I kinda like the 25-303 too. I already have a perfectly good Mk1 * with a near new No.4 barrel. Maybe I'll just wait untill Steve reports back.

My aim is to build a long range dual perpose hunter/varminter rifle. The larger case of the 57 and Swede appeal because pressure can be kept to 303 levels and still get some range. Like the 257 Roberts. Maybe a 257 using 7x57R cases? Theoretically, 303 cases can be fire-formed and, if one is careful, 7x57 cases can be used too (or 257 Roberts cases).

06 June 2008, 21:11

iiranger

Working with Mr. Ackley, a Mr. Epps, Elwood, Canada, re worked/Improved the .303 along the lines of what Mr. Ackley and many others had done with the .30/40 Krag.

A fan of the .303 Epps Improved with a web site is .303british.com ... He also has a link to the web site of the Epps gun shop, now, as I understand, in the hands of the offspring. Your gun would require the lower pressure loads, not having the strength of a P14.

Mr. Epps "big dog" was the P14 rechambered to the blown out .300 H&H case but for the .311 approx. bullet. ".303 Canadian Magnum." Shades of Mr. Weatherby who promoted hard but did not originate the blown out case.

As said, the .405 Winchester was on a rim of the same size and slightly longer case. There was a .35 Winchester --SAME CASE-- that went no where fast. Mr. Ackley wrote that the .30/40 Krag improved would equal FACTORY LOADS of the .300 H&H (which was not loaded hot with cordite); BUT not in a Krag action!!! (one lug and OLD!). That would be awful much for your gun, but something to think about.

The .25 Krag Improved (Ackley, "full length") has the same capacity of the well regarded .257 Roberts Improved. You could probably come close, safely, with a .25 Epps.

Mr. Ackely's books are available from eabco.com, Sinclair Interantional, Ebay, ... fun journey. Enjoy. Luck.

08 June 2008, 22:52

rugeruser

Mate,

I'd suggest staying with the variants based on the 303 case - 25 / 270/ 358... all good.

Biggest problem with the SMLE is finding a 'smith who knows how to alter the feed lips on the magazine to feed properly - I've seen a few people have real headaches when teh 'smith they used didn't understand the set up....

09 June 2008, 20:17

steve box

Yip, I'm going with the 25-303. I found a place that has brass so I don't have to worry about case forming, and Midway has the dies, so it seems like a done deal. Check this sight out for obscure calber brass. http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/av_ballistics.htm

I got time to shop for a good Smith, heck there might be someone here that can do it, and there is still the issue of what kind of barrel to use.

11 June 2008, 22:26

Con

Which version of the 303/25 are you intending? Best to buy the dies, then match them as there's some variation in 303/25 dies as the cartridge was never standardised. In a SMLE you'll more than likely have yourself a mild 250Savage equivalent. Forming brass is as easy as running 303British into the 303/25 FL die and trimming.
Cheers...
Con

11 June 2008, 23:10

Terry Blauwkamp

If you go with the 303 Canadian, what .311 bullets do you use that are "tough" enough?

12 June 2008, 03:20

Tentman

Hello Guys

303-25 is an interesting "beast", I have two of them, and know of several others. As has been mentioned the variation in chambers is a very signifigant issue.

However I think I now have a handle on it - opinions invited . . .

As it can headspace on the rim I think the standard dies (at least the Simplex Australian ones I have anyway) are set up to push the case shoulder well back, and give a long neck. This means that full length sized cases will fit "all chambers", the only risk being cases that might be longer than spec or for your chamber.

In reloading cases that are have been fired in "your" rifle, you need to set the die up so it only sizes the portion of neck that you have ended up with i.e. the "fireformed case".

I suppose the resulting variation in case capacity should also be considered when working up loads, especially at the higher end - Although I don't think it a good idea to push any limits with this cartridge.

This works for me in my H&R Handi 303/25 and SMLE 303/25.

Cheers - Foster

12 June 2008, 03:28

Shinzo

quote:
Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
If you go with the 303 Canadian, what .311 bullets do you use that are "tough" enough?

I see that Barnes now list a 150 gr .311 cal TSX bullet, should get the job done in a Magnum I would think.
Steve.

13 June 2008, 16:35

El Deguello

Any of the Elwood Epps (Canadian) wildcats based on the .303 case.... I think some are in the Ackley handbook for Shooters & Reloaders.

These all use blown-out, less tapered cases, which reduces the backthrust by grabbing the chamber walls on firing. This helps reduce case-head separations and allows a slight increase in useable pressures over the standard .303 ammo in the SMLE action.....