Maurice Ottmar - Brno ZG-49 ?

16 March 2003, 01:45

systeme98

FLA 30-06,
Morry liked the dovetail receiver mounting system. Importers often regarded the 49 as a model 20 usual letters after and the 49 and 1/2 as the model 21. The round receiver often did not have a bolt guide and slot to use up WW II factory inventory from the days of H. Goering and the German Occupation, It also required making bases. I don't recall what he did about the 60 degree M2 Metric thread of the ZG 47, but he snarfed them up just as greedily. Us slow guys never had a chance.

16 March 2003, 03:29

fla3006

ZG-47's

16 March 2003, 07:46

Customstox

I don't know about his preference for those actions. I do, however, remember being in his shop and having Dave Christman open a drawer and let out an audible gasp followed by a couple of Louisiana exclamations that were translated for us into English. It was full of, approximtely 12 to 15 BRNO 21's, that was his favorite. Another drawer had probably a dozen G33/40's. I didn't seen any others. Jim Dubel was there if I remember, he might shed more light on it.

16 March 2003, 08:36

<JBelk>

Fla 3006--

Thanks for the Viagra!!!

Chic---
I have one of the M-21 from Maurice's drawer.

They're my pick for the best of the M-98s.......but I *do* crave another VZ-33........and just one more 1909 Peruvian.....

Oh well. The 'favorites list' idea sounded good at the time....... [Smile]

[ 03-15-2003, 23:37: Message edited by: JBelk ]

16 March 2003, 08:53

<JOHAN>

JBelk

What is soo special about the peruvian mausers? I don't think I ever seen one live.

I have my fix on the Husky 640, Zg-47 and the little neat BRNO 21 [Big Grin]

I wonder why mausers are soo damn addictive [Eek!]

/ JOHAN

16 March 2003, 11:05

nextjoe

quote:
Originally posted by JOHAN:
JBelk

What is soo special about the peruvian mausers? I don't think I ever seen one live.

I have my fix on the Husky 640, Zg-47 and the little neat BRNO 21

I wonder why mausers are soo damn addictive

/ JOHAN

The Peruvians have a very unusual tall stripper clip slot. From a distance it looks a little like a square bridge. They also have a long cocking piece and a long receiver ring. I want one to build into a light 7x57 deerstalking rifle, but I can't find a clean one at a reasonable price [Frown]

Best,
Joe

16 March 2003, 11:08

<JBelk>

......AND they have a large ring but small threads.

Lust, pant, hassle and slobber.......

16 March 2003, 11:39

nextjoe

quote:
Originally posted by JBelk:
......AND they have a large ring but small threads.

Lust, pant, hassle and slobber.......

You got me on that one, Jack. I'll have to reread Olson.

Best,
Joe

16 March 2003, 11:59

Atkinson

I recently sold a nice Brno 21M and built I a great little 7x57 manlicher on a fine VZ-33, some gun editor bought it from me. It is the same action as the G33-40 except the VZ-33 was built for the Customs Service

Fine actions, small rings build up into really nice little rifles.. I have lusted for years for a small ring in 9.3x62 for several years and have been giving some serious thought to matching the barrel on my Brno 21 that is a 8x57 with a 9.3x62 and using the sleeves off the 8x57 barrel so I don't have to mess with the stock...

I saw a 9.3x62 on a 21M rifle about 4 years ago at the Walley Bienfield gunshow, It is the only one I have seen or heard off, the owner claimed it as original and the price certainly indicated to to be lejit as did the barrel engraving...I have never been quite the same since observing it...I have found no record of it being produced in that caliber, however a very promenent collector of Brnos from Germany told me that such things happened in those days and it was possible to find them in any caliber, but rare indeed, and I did see one in 7 Mag. caliber in Oregan and it too appeared original, I did not like the idea of a small ring in 7 mag caliber...

16 March 2003, 14:13

<JOHAN>

Atkinson

A friend of mine bought a 9,3X62 BRNO mod 21 at an auction. It had double triggers and a full lenght stock. It was very nice and in very good condition. Since I already have a 9,3X62 in didn't bother with any bid's. The final price were 380$. I regrett that I didn't bought it.

This same fellow own's a ZG-47 in 404 Jeffery that is original from factory. They think is was made for some high ranking commy party member. Atkinson, take it slow and don't get to excited about this [Big Grin]

Is it hard to find a peruvian mauser in good condition. What are the prices for a nice clean useable action?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 03-16-2003, 05:14: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

16 March 2003, 14:29

fla3006

Brno 21-H (small ring, half stock, square bridge, carbine length barrels, 7x57 & 8x57)

16 March 2003, 16:44

KurtC

Ray,

Years ago Continental Arms in New York used to import the Brno's and customize them. I once held one of their full stock 22f's with a 24" barrel in .358 Norma Magnum. The stock was showing stress cracks behind the tang. The barrel contour was matched almost perfectly to the stock. Only a hairline gap at the shoulder.

16 March 2003, 16:59

uwave

My ex neighbor, a merchant mariner, had a square
bridge "Brno" 21 he got in Europe. Exquisite. I tried many a time to buy it from him. He never would sell it.

BTW, Can someone explain to me how the following rifles are(if?) related:

1. Brno ZG47
2. Brno 21 & 22's
3. Brno ZKK 600, 601, & 602
4. CZ 550's ( Looks like an updated ZKK 600 to me
with a different bolt shrould and more polish.

16 March 2003, 17:26

KurtC

ZG-47 Modified large ring mauser designed by Galas in 1947, made by the original Brno company.

21/22 Small ring mauser designed by Jelen, made from 1937-1950 by the original Brno company. Early models do not have dovetailed receivers.

ZKK-600 Commercial action with some mauser features, designed by Koucky. Made from 1960-1995 by CZ and marketed under the Brno name.

CZ-550 Updated version of the ZKK-600, still made by CZ and marketed under their own name.

Brno 98 Current large ring mausers made by the original Brno company on their own wartime actions.

16 March 2003, 17:51

uwave

KurtC

Thanks for the info. So, it looks like we are
talking about two different lines of rifles from two different companies. The "original Brno company" and CZ.

I have a Brno Zkk601 short action rifle that I
really like. Its just a little larger than the
CZ-527, but more Mauser like.

By what name does the "original Brno company" go by today? Wonder if there would be a chance they would ever produce rifles like the 47s and 21s
again!

Thanks to all.

16 March 2003, 18:07

KurtC

During the Communist years the government insisted that the CZ factory in Uhersky Brod use the Brno name, while the Brno factory was concentrating on making armaments. The factories are in two different towns.

Todays Brno makes their rifles primarily for the European market, but they do make a low budget line that is being imported into the US by EAA (this line is not shown on the Brno website, probably too humiliating).

The model 21/22 and the ZG-47 were made and fitted largely by hand. Recreating them today would be too costly, same goes for original Mannlicher-Schoenauers. I'm afraid that level of quality will only be found with custom gunsmiths.

The current Brno premium line has about the same quality as the CZ-550's, its just built on a pure 98 action. I have one of their full stock 9.3's that needed just a few tweeks to turn it into an nice rifle.

16 March 2003, 18:39

Atkinson

Johan,
Jeeez I'd freak out if I could get my hands on a 9.3x62 in 21 or 22, I'd pay dearly for it...tell your friend..

17 March 2003, 09:02

GG375

I've seen 2 model 21's made in 1955 (or at least with 55 stamped on action and barrel) and with normal round knob type bolt handles. Anyone know anything about these?

GG

17 March 2003, 09:14

GG375

Here's a photo of my .270 win made on one of those 1955 m21 actions.

17 March 2003, 00:58

<JOHAN>

GG375

Hmm, very nice. Tell me about the bottom metal used on this rifle? Original or custom, by who?

Are the 21 common in Aussie land? What are the prices? The wood is not bad either, Home grown or imported [Roll Eyes]

Atkinson, I might know one with a half stock that could be sitting loose. I'm not sure. My friend will only sell his rifles at gun threat, Belive me I have tried over and over [Big Grin]

I regrett that I never took the chance and stole it from him at the auction [Big Grin]

I will try to talk to is wife, perhaps she will do a bit of haggeling about too manny guns and the cost of them [Eek!]

/ JOHAN

[ 03-17-2003, 01:11: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

17 March 2003, 12:01

GG375

Gidday Johan

Model 21's are not that common over here although there are a few floating around. I suspect most of them would be in the collections of Brno fans. They sell for anywhere between $1500 and $2500 depending on how original and if they have original scopes/mounts.

As I said my custom 270 was built using one of the 1955 actions with normal type bolt handle. The square bridges have been recontoured to look nicer with the modified Warne mounts. A fold up peep site was milled into the rear bridge. New checkered bolt handle, Wisner 3 pos safety, Blackburn bottom metal and the stock is a beautiful piece of Walnut from the US.

Hooroo

GG

17 March 2003, 14:13

Customstox

GG375, the next time you talk to our friend Russel H., tell him that the BRO 21 barreled action he brought visiting went to Africa with me and took 7 of the 9 animals my daughter and I shot. It has quickly become my favorite hunting rifle. I was fortunate in finding some Burgess scope rings for it.