The Accurate Reloading Forums
Re: What do you think about this stock blank?
17 August 2004, 16:06
GrandViewRe: What do you think about this stock blank?
guy whose family was in the custom furniture business don't know anything about wood Quote:
Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN....
Strange he did not seem to know the difference between a quarter sawn blank and a plain sawn blank.
To be fair A_C, the reference was to M1Tanker.......who certainly DID know the difference between quarter sawn and plain sawn blanks.
From the definition of quarter sawn.....grain not less than 45 degree to the face......or as he stated, between 45 and 90 degrees to the face, to the fact that a completely slab sawn trunk will yield about 30% quarter sawn blanks. Which it will. The cuts that approach the center of the trunk will yield quarter sawn blanks.
M1Tanker's was a pretty factual post.
GV
17 August 2004, 02:02
ASS_CLOWNGrandview,
That is an exquisite hunting rifle you have there. From the pictures you stock appears to be 1/4 sawn.
By the way, in the picture you posted.
Beam "A" is Quarter Sawn.
Beam "B" is a SECTION OF A SLAB CUT which provides optimum grain layout for stability. Or it is a center cut 1/4 sawn peice (PREMIUM in my opinion).
Beam "C" is a SLAB cut from the near the OD of the tree.
When quarter saying the log is cut into quarters. Each quarter is then slab cut. So the first peices off of each quarter and closes to the center of the log are the BEST!
When slab cutting the some pieces can later be ripped to provide optimum "quarter sawn" grain layout. As your picture of Beam "B" indicates.
M1 Tanker's blank appears to have angled grain, ~ 45deg from the lay of that sapwood. As such I strongly doubt is was 1/4 sawn. It really is impossible to tell without seeing the end and edge grains of the individual blank.
When looking at grain structure the side faces (broad faces which everyone seems to love to look at) are of the least importance and are primarily cosmetic. The end and edge grains structures, on the other hand, are of the utmost importance and describe how the grain in that individual blank is layed out.
One final note. You will NEVER get "marble cake" in a 1/4 sawn blank of optimum grain layout (the grain is perpendicular to the face of the blank like Grandview's beam "B"). Marble cake only occurs in slab cuts or skewed grain blanks.
I apologize for "hijacking" the thread, but hopefully someone learned something.
ASS_CLOWN
EDIT:
I found this on a quick google search. I hope it answers some questions. This stuff is really intuitively obvious if you think about it a bit.
Plain (slab cut) and Quarter Sawing of Logs Good day.
17 August 2004, 02:30
GrandViewQuote:
Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN....
Beam "B" is a SECTION OF A SLAB CUT which provides optimum grain layout for stability. Or it is a center cut 1/4 sawn peice (PREMIUM in my opinion).
The graphic might be confusing. It is representing the end of the blank as it is cut out of the tree. As such, B would be center-cut quarter-sawn as you indicate.
GV
17 August 2004, 03:03
M1TankerYou have a lot to learn about quarter sawn lumber. All quarter sawn means is that the end grain runs 45-90 from the face of the board. Cutting the log into quarters then sawing is just one technique to get quarter sawn lumber but it does give the highest yield. Plain old slab sawing a log will also yield about 30% quarter sawn.
Quarter sawn can and does yield marble cake and all other types figure you can imagine. It usually wont have a lot of "cathedral" type figure but it can be there depending on the lay of the grain.
I spent my teenage winters and through college working in my brother in laws custom woodworking shop so I have a pretty good understanding of how wood works.
13 August 2004, 08:09
GrandViewNice.
I've picked out a couple blanks for a friend that were on sale from $550 to $385. Both very nice. I think Dressels blanks are fairly accurately represented.
That said, if I was going to spend some significant money on one........I'd likely try to get on the good side of Chic Worthing and have hime check it out personally. Chic makes a trip there every now and then. I'd trust his eye.
GV
13 August 2004, 13:22
Gringo CazadorI'm no expert. But I would not pay 7 bills for that stock, thats my opinion.
I think for 7 Bills you can do better.
I've only bought one stock off Dressels website, it was quite a bit lighter in real life than the pic, but it was still a nice stock.
OK Gringo,
http://www.dressels.com/ Give me your choice in about that price range.
Thanks,
Terry
13 August 2004, 11:22
Savage99I don't like the color at all. It could be changed with French Red though. The sides don't match that well either.
Perhaps it's the picture but I have never seen "English" that color.
Keep looking.
13 August 2004, 14:25
CustomstoxTC1,
I happen to like the honey and black look of that blank. The difference between a lot of these blanks is just personal taste. Being able to distinguish between grain matches and what makes an exhibition stock is what makes a pro like Dressel. BTW, those sides do match. You never get an exact match, except on adjacent blanks with a the common cut faces. It would be good to see it in person. Shoot me an email if you would like me to check it out for you. I am likely to be going there early next month. Most of Paul's blanks look even better in person. I also like 8-219 and 8-222, and a number of the $800 ones, go figure, lol.
Been looking at a few places for a couple of day's and found this. It's English and runs $750 about as much as the budget will allow. Never picked a blank out before and would like some opinions before I drop the cash. It's for a M-70. I like it but what do you think?
Terry
CLICK HERE FOR THE BIG PITURE OF IT < !--color-->13 August 2004, 15:50
HunterJimChic,
Thanks for commenting on the blank; I liked it too, but I know squat about grading blanks. After comparing the blank you chose for our SCI rifle to the finished article, I will defer to your choice.
jim
13 August 2004, 18:40
Gringo CazadorOf the English blanks 8-217 is the one I like, the black walnut may be the most bang for the buck at $550 PXR 2-33, I don't even like blank walnut but its a real nice blank.
OR you could send chic a check for $800 and next time he goes to dressls pic you out a good blank and whats left over let him take is wife or girlfiend to dinner, but not both
13 August 2004, 19:10
M1TankerChic picked out a couple blanks that he reccomended for my 375 H&H project. Both were exceptional. Here is a pic of the final choice (on Chics reccomendation).
I figure he has forgotten more than I will ever know about stocks and followed his advice. I am very happy with the stock he reccomended to me. I am learning just how important things like grain lay out, wood porosity (?), brashness, density, and all the other important stuff are.
14 August 2004, 01:06
jeffeossoWill
chic has a fantastic eye, that for certain. Dressels charges far more than I think they should.. and for me that's certain...
and I don't like the blank that started this thread, and i LOVE yours... why? i dunno...
jeffe
13 August 2004, 14:09
<mikeh416Rigby>Check out the stock blanks at
www.serengetistockworks.com14 August 2004, 03:14
<allen day>THAT'S my kind of blank! Excellent color, figure, and layout thru and thru. Your blank reminds me of old fashion, true French walnut, and is exactly the sort of wood that I seek out myself. It'll make for an awesome stock, one that you can hand down for generations.
You have been well-advised!
AD
14 August 2004, 03:00
Gringo CazadorI really like the blank Chic picked out and no doubt he knows a good blank, he's seen enough of them.
I'm with Jeffe, Dressls is a little proud of some of the blanks for my pocket book. I'm sure dressls has many nice stocks, but many on there site maybe to skinny for a cheek piece, but they sure of fun to look at.
I'm waiting to get a dressls stock back from being turned, should be here middle of next week.
Appreciate it Chic, That's what I needed to know. By the way, a personal thank you is in order for turning me onto Bill Harvey. I called him up and talked with him about what I wanted to do for about an hour. A very nice man that's generous with his time. He's gonna turn the blank for me and do the fitting too.
Thanks for the offer of inspecting the blank for me, I think I'm just going to go ahead a buy it though. If It doesn't look good she said she'd trade it out for another one or what ever it took to make me happy as long as I didn't alter it from it's present condition.
Terry
13 August 2004, 17:46
WstrnhuntrThats definatley a nice blank, I like the marble figure on the left but since it seems so much darker on the right I wouldnt either. I like TR-131, and ER 8-205 is AWSOME!
14 August 2004, 06:17
M1TankerQuote:
THAT'S my kind of blank! Excellent color, figure, and layout thru and thru. Your blank reminds me of old fashion, true French walnut, and is exactly the sort of wood that I seek out myself. It'll make for an awesome stock, one that you can hand down for generations.
You have been well-advised!
AD
Making a rifle that will become a family heirloom is one of my intents with this rifle. Chic is making the stock for me and I couldnt be happier with the advice he has given me on it so far. There is a reason why professionals like Chic are where they are today. That is why he is making my stock.
14 August 2004, 04:19
Savage99Here is a blank that was sold as Turkish walnut. I got it about thirty years ago. Last year I had it laminated by Seregeti as the side did not match as well as they do now.
I show it as the color is closer to what I like.
14 August 2004, 02:15
BrentTanker, that stock is what I would consider just about ideal. I'd be interested in what you paid for it, if you don't mind sharing. I have bought a few blanks and find that in the $300 I can often find what I like quite easily, but this one is just a bit better than any I have found at that price so I'm betting it cost you a good bit more.
Brent
17 August 2004, 15:12
ASS_CLOWNRick,
Quote:
an idiot that doesn't even know how to hold a rifle is the world authority on everything having to do with firearms!
Would you mind explaining this one to me? What next you going to start making fun of me because I drink Jack Daniels black label?
Quote:
guy whose family was in the custom furniture business don't know anything about wood
Strange he did not seem to know the difference between a quarter sawn blank and a plain sawn blank.
Hey Rick, could you answer this one for me? Can quarter sawn blanks cook-off?
ASS_CLOWN
17 August 2004, 04:24
GrandViewThis is likely a better illustration of quarter vs. slab or flat.
Some links to graphics of the different ways a log can be sawed. The lower-left quadrant of the last link must be a gunstock nut. Bit of waste there.
GV
http://www.slcc.edu/tech/techsp/arch/courses/ARCH1210/Photos/sawn_log.jpghttp://www.winternet.com/~akaske/Images/quarter3.gifhttp://www.winternet.com/~akaske/Images/plainsaw.gifhttp://www.cherryvalleyfurniture.com/graphics/log.gif17 August 2004, 04:29
rick0311Hey, William...
It looks like we might need to start another thread; "So...tell me about � sawn lumber!"
Personally, I believe that AC is actually a group of out-patients at the local mental hospital. Have you ever noticed that in one post he sounds like a confused 10 year old...then in the next he sounds like a Harvard professor?
Let's see what we have learned so far:
First...a professional stock maker, and a guy whose family was in the custom furniture business don't know anything about wood??
Second...an idiot that doesn't even know how to hold a rifle is the world authority on everything having to do with firearms!
Later,
Rick
17 August 2004, 16:59
M1TankerAC
If you had a better understanding of wood you would know that quarter sawn applies to the taechnique of "quartering" the log and then cutting it to get the optimum yield of quarter sawn lumber. But you also get many much narrower boards. Quarter sawn is also the proper term for lumber in which the end grain lies 45-90 degrees to the face of the board. QS is not limited to the cutting technique only. The proper term is refers to the lay of the grain.
If you slab saw a log top to bottom you DO get QS lumber in the yield.
I have refrained throwing insults at you in spite of your rudeness. Have enough class to admit you dont know everything and learn from those who do know more than you.
14 August 2004, 06:32
JeffP
Making a rifle that will become a family heirloom is one of my intents with this rifle.
Care to adopt???
Like AD said,you have been well advised.
14 August 2004, 04:03
steve yThe figure there doesn't thrill me but I like the color fine.
I'd definitely work toward the left side as much as possible, assuming the photo has not been reversed.
The great thing about wood is each product is unique. Wait a month, or two or three, and there are entirely different blanks to choose from.
13 August 2004, 18:50
SheisterPersonally, Terry's choice is my absolute favorite style of English walnut, or any stock wood for that matter. When cut and finished, it will finish (as Chic stated) in a warm honey color with the dark chocolate streaks reaching from the butt to the forend.
In fact, the stock on the new rifle on the Dakota catalog cover I received today is just this style of blank. I sure wouldn't turn it away for anything short of maybe a high-end piece of Turkish. Just wish that kind of wood was more in my budget these days. So many toys and so little money!
- Bob
19 August 2004, 01:54
ASS_CLOWNWilliam,
The problem is I have learned NOTHING from this post! I apologize for being "rude". Strange how you define rude though! Your blank is still far from an optimum quarter sawn blank, if you like it or not! By the way, I have built custom furniture too, big deal, I but sawyered logs as well, again big deal! So like I said, I have learned nothing about lumber on this thread. However, I have learned that there are a few more cry babies on this site though.
Good day.
ASS_CLOWN