How to fix an 98 action ??

06 August 2003, 10:54

<JOHAN>

Gentlemen

A while ago I gotten my dear Brno m-21 action. The action was cheap since it lacked bolt and some missguided fool who should been sent to prison had drilled and tapped the action for weaver bases.

Thankfully the squarebridges are still untouched and have not been touched or reshaped

I have consulted a few gunsmiths and gotten different suggestions how to fix this problem.

1. Weld up the holes with a TIG. What risks is it with this operation? What work is needed to be done after this?

2. plug the holes with a plug/rives that will be a bit oversized so it will fill up the hole and lock it self in the thread.

What to do? According to the Mauser collectors, action is made of poldy steel and not the same soft low carbon steel as obendorf mausers.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 08-06-2003, 01:57: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

06 August 2003, 15:25

Atkinson

I assume from your description it is drilled on the side...I would first try to find a side mount or have Griffen and Howe install a side mount....Might even surface grind it to a round top receiver....

To repair the holes, I would drill out the threads with a taper, use a hot pin and tig them in, broach the inside if I could, surface grind the outside surface and hone the action inside and out...Jack Belk does this real well...I usually have him do the tig work and I polish it.

06 August 2003, 15:43

KurtC

When you say "square bridges" are you referring to the post 1949 model with the dovetailed bridges?

07 August 2003, 09:16

Daniel M

Hola Johan

the risk to weld the holes it's you can see the spot after bluing as the steel of the BRNO actions are a bit different , I'll try to plug the holes , I'll made two threaded plug with soft steel , screw it cut and taper with a little hammer until it get flush with surface , filed and polished you can't see it , also you can screw and soft soldered the screw/posts ,an option to hide the screws , you can ask to made a engraved surface , if you dislike the finished product later you can weld it .

Saludos

Daniel

06 August 2003, 22:04

<JOHAN>

Gentlemen

the holes are on the top since it was done for weaver bases [Mad]

Kurt C,the dovetail bases for scopemount. Mine was made 1950's soo call it what you like [Big Grin]

Daniel M. Do you know anyone who is god at repairing this type of stuff? Gracias
[Big Grin]

/ JOHAN

[ 08-06-2003, 13:17: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

07 August 2003, 00:02

Danny Pay

Hej Johan
why don,t you put a screw inside the hole and then solder it at very low temprature or using locktite.All kind of welding produce a great amount of temprature which can cause softning in the action's steel or creat tension in the steel which needs stress releiving or can cause cracking(especialy in high carbon or cr mo alloys)!. why can't you leave alone those holes?
rgards
danny

07 August 2003, 05:12

Customstox

Johan, whatever you do, ignore the comment about installing side mounts. You have the best scope bases integral on this action. I would go with the soft plugs. Have your smith use a countersink and create a small bevel at the top of the holes. Peen the plugs and then dress them flush. If yours is like mine the top has those squigly lines that you will unlikely be able to recreate but it will be less noticeable. Good Luck.

07 August 2003, 05:22

Clark

I get my mistakes TIG welded over, then I shape, polish, and cold blue. It helps me forget.

07 August 2003, 05:53

<JOHAN>

Customstox

Thanks for the advice, That is the way that I have been planning to go.

Side mounts my butt, I wonder what Ray Atkinson had for brunch, burbon with rocks or a plate of beer with some tequila [Big Grin]

Ray have you been drinking again, if not I suspect that you rifles are living a dangerous life in you vault beening threatend to get sidemounted [Big Grin]

Cheers
/ JOHAN

07 August 2003, 06:23

KurtC

Ray is probably thinking of the pre-49 rifles that do not have the dovetails.

I would say that yours is salvageable using any of the above plug methods, and your rings will hide it. It is when the holes are in the early model round top receivers that it gets frustrating. Trying to duplicate the logo in the front receiver ring is difficult, if not impossible.

07 August 2003, 06:29

<JOHAN>

KurtC

the logo is still intact and they have to my mind done some thinking before they drilled the receiver. I just called my engarving chum who said it would be "NO problem to fix the pattern"

Now, the hard question is what to make of this action, caliber etc. this is a difficult, but pleasant time for a mauser loony [Big Grin]

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 08-06-2003, 21:30: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

07 August 2003, 07:46

z1r

Johan,

Isn't this the same question that Jack and Mr. Burgess and others tackled here?:
http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=006321#000010

I suppose the answer comes down to who are you able to find to do the work and what are they capable of.

07 August 2003, 11:23

<JOHAN>

z1r
almost right, but not. It was annother action that I handed over to a friend [Smile]

He were in greater need than me, soo I wanted to be kind to him [Smile]

I guess pluggin the hole is th ebest way for those silly holes in the front receiver ring [Roll Eyes]

Now, I have to get a qualified gunsmith that will do this well.
Cheers
/ JOHAN

07 August 2003, 13:34

Scrollcutter

Chic
I used to reinstall the squiggles for Ottmar. I still have the capability to do that.

07 August 2003, 13:52

Customstox

Roger, I have a squiggle job for you sometime. I have a 7X57 Krieghoff bolt rifle with a half round half octagon barrel and a plug has been installed in the integral rib and it should have some squiggles. Either that or reinstall a rear sight. BTW, trust you to be able to do that (squiggles) and carry it off. [Smile]

If I even tried it, the results would look like a road map of I-5, complete with consruction detours. Probably why I do not do that stuff.

07 August 2003, 23:24

Danny Pay

hi Johan
buy a good!new blaser and throw that old brno away [Big Grin]

it is not worth the pain [Razz]

No i am kidding. those old stuffs have much more charm and functions much better.
danny

08 August 2003, 11:05

<JOHAN>

quote:
Originally posted by Danny Pay:
hi Johan
buy a good!new blaser and throw that old brno away it is not worth the pain
danny

Danny..danny..danny

Judgeing your latest reply's and insults on my rifles, I guess you must have free pills at the pharmacy were you work, company policy? [Big Grin]

What was it today speed or downers? [Big Grin]

/ JOHAN

[ 08-08-2003, 20:51: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

09 August 2003, 06:56

Danny Pay

in our company all vitamines are free from charges for all the members, you take too much C-vitamin and you get high [Big Grin]

if you take too much B-vitamins then you need to sitt down for a gï¿½ï¿½d while on toillett chair [Frown]

because it becomes laxative). i get the cds it was a lot of fun . i beleive they took a lot of long shots and the old fat guy with german accent shot very lousy with his blaser and what was the calibers used by that little guy with a big nose [Big Grin]

and stainless fluted red barrel he made some good long shots.
regards
danny

09 August 2003, 14:28

Robgunbuilder

Here is what I've learned about repairing holes in actions. Drill out the hole and taper ream it. Use a good TIG welder with HF start only and a tartan TIG Rod. Totally clean the action and metal before starting and use as low an amperage as possible. Use a swirling pattern to how the tig electrode is held and make sure there are no PITS. Work swiftlyand pay attention to the heat generated or your action will warp! It's generally no problem on the action rings, but filling side mount holes requires another level of expertise. You then have to mill out the residue from the action rails. I wrecked a good action learning how to do this so beware. Not trivial. Consider simple screw plugs as a better alternative unless you can find someone who damn well has done this before and can prove it to you.-Rob

09 August 2003, 23:06

<JOHAN>

Robgunbuilder

Have you gotten any problem with the blueing after welding? I have seen actions that has a different color of the blueing in the area around the weld.

Is this because of incorrect wedling or what? Do you cone the entire hole soo the entire hole can be filled during the welding.

What type of action did you weld and destroyed?

What is a tartan rod?

/ JOHAN

10 August 2003, 03:18

vip

Johan, I was wondering what caliber this M21 is and if it took the standard lenghth 98 bolt. If not, where were you able to get a bolt from? Paul.

10 August 2003, 03:34

<JOHAN>

vip

I had a bolt in my favorite drawer that were already polished and ready [Roll Eyes]

The action doesn't have a caliber right now, but it was a 7X57 when I found it, actually it was a real horror rifle, cracked stock, rusted out barrel. One thing is clear, the previous owner wasn't a great mauser loony that took care of his guns [Mad]

I guess that you have some sort of trouble [Confused]

I guess that you got an action luying around, or that could be bought for a great price [Big Grin]

If soo I might be able to help you [Smile]

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 08-09-2003, 18:41: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

10 August 2003, 05:31

D Humbarger

Johan why don't you cut it in two at the thumb cut & weld another receiver rear onto it & then you have a nice Kurz action! [Big Grin]

10 August 2003, 07:27

<JOHAN>

quote:
Originally posted by D Humbarger:
why don't you cut it in two at the thumb cut...then you have a nice Kurz action!

Humbarger...humbarger, you old silly nitwit [Big Grin]

.

I had high hopes for you regarding knowledge of mausers, I was wrong [Big Grin]

The action LACKS thumb cut and stripper clip slot [Razz]

I would never cut in a perfectly fine action.
Now, please send all your Mausers to me soo nothing dangerous will happend to them [Smile]

/ JOHAN

10 August 2003, 09:40

D Humbarger

Johan I was looking at Clarks post & thinking of the thumb cut & typing my post. Must have been a senior mement. [Big Grin]

I just couldn't bare to part with any of my Mausers...I would surely need therepy afterwards with the withdrawl thing & all. [Big Grin]

11 August 2003, 02:31

vip

Johan, does it take the standard K98 bolt or is it shorter? Is the bolt shroud different on the bottom to allow it to pass over the tang? The barreled receiver actually belongs to a friend of mine and it is minus a bolt assembly. He tells me that a K98 bolt won't fit this action. It is a very neat lightweight rifle set up strictly for open sights (very low comb) and is a 6.5 caliber. Not a 6.5 X 55 swede or 6.5 X 55 MS. It's a shorter caliber than these. Do you have any more bolts that would fit it or know where I can get one? Thanks.

11 August 2003, 03:20

<JOHAN>

vip

would you please post a few picture of the gun? Option is to send them to me by mail? THis sounds really interesting. When is the rifle made? look at the left side of the action near the barrel, there are some markings.

Humbarger, I forgive you for your sloppyness, this time [Big Grin]

Next time the mauser mob will strike [Eek!]

Imagine how horrible life would be without mausers [Eek!]

/ JOHAN

11 August 2003, 08:26

vip

Johan, I sent you a personal email. Thanks.

11 August 2003, 10:43

Orion 1

quote:
Originally posted by Danny Pay:
hi Johan
buy a good!new blaser and throw that old brno away it is not worth the pain No i am kidding. those old stuffs have much more charm and functions much better.
danny

I'm not kidding. Dump it in the trash.

11 August 2003, 11:03

Fritz Kraut

quote:
Originally posted by Orion 1:

quote:
Originally posted by Danny Pay:
hi Johan
buy a good!new blaser and throw that old brno away it is not worth the pain No i am kidding. those old stuffs have much more charm and functions much better.
danny
I'm not kidding. Dump it in the trash.

Regarding Blaster`s guns, I alway think of a green plastic gun I won at the marketplace tombola when I was six years old.

The Brno is a real gun for real riflemen. The Blaster isnï¿½t. Period!

Here is my own favourite BRNO, a ZKW 465 in .22 Hornet:

It is made 1948, and the work and finish is remarkably better than that of my two years younger Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

Fritz

11 August 2003, 11:28

KurtC

VIP,

The bolt from my 1946 22f is interchangeable with the bolt from my Brno 98 (EAA import). The only difference is that the 22f lacks the guide rib on top of the bolt, even though the receiver is cut for one.

11 August 2003, 14:02

vip

KurtC, is the model 22f the same as the model 21? I know the bolt for this rifle is shorter than the standard 98.

11 August 2003, 14:19

KurtC

21 and 22 are the same action, small ring commercial 98's.

11 August 2003, 14:48

Orion 1

quote:
Originally posted by Fritz Kraut:

quote:
Originally posted by Orion 1:

quote:
Originally posted by Danny Pay:
hi Johan
buy a good!new blaser and throw that old brno away it is not worth the pain No i am kidding. those old stuffs have much more charm and functions much better.
danny
I'm not kidding. Dump it in the trash.
Regarding Blaster`s guns, I alway think of a green plastic gun I won at the marketplace tombola when I was six years old.

The Brno is a real gun for real riflemen. The Blaster isnï¿½t. Period!

Here is my own favourite BRNO, a ZKW 465 in .22 Hornet:

It is made 1948, and the work and finish is remarkably better than that of my two years younger Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

Fritz

A real rifleman doesn't need pretty little rifles that work smoothly to inflict maximum damage.

11 August 2003, 16:05

Orion 1

Fritz Kraut, here's a real rifle for real riflemen:

11 August 2003, 18:49

wallyw

quote:
Originally posted by Orion 1:
Fritz Kraut, here's a real rifle for real riflemen:

Certainly good for punchung holes in paper.

Wally

12 August 2003, 05:50

<JOHAN>

vip

If you rifle is a Brno m-21or 22, a normal standard bolt will work just fine. I tried a mauser obendorf bolt with the Brno 21 receiver made in 1950 it worked just fine with all the guide rails etc. Make sure that you action have the slots for the bolt rail.

Fritz kraut, Very nice rifle, Thoose small Brno's are a real treats [Smile]

Do you need a new toy? Give me a call, I might be able to help you [Razz]

, PM sent !

Cheers
/ JOHAN

12 August 2003, 07:41

Orion 1

quote:
Originally posted by wallyw:

quote:
Originally posted by Orion 1:
Fritz Kraut, here's a real rifle for real riflemen:

Certainly good for punchung holes in paper.

Wally

Remove the apertures and slap on a scope on QD mounts and kill a deer. Looks don't kill. Bullets and marksmanship do.

14 August 2003, 07:21

<JOHAN>

Well gentlemen

I must thank you all for you effort to help me solve this matter, but today I got an offer that I couldn't resist, the action is GONE. The new owner will make a nice 7X57 on is, which will suit the action very well [Smile]

I still have Brno m-21 rifle to play around with [Razz]

Cheers
/ JOHAN