New Mauser Project(s) Questions

06 April 2002, 04:17

I am gearing up to build a couple of 'Turkingtons' and wanted comments/suggestions. I've read a number of posts and think I have it figured, but would like the input of others. First off, these are going to be all weather/roughed up whitetail hunting rifles, so I am not looking for extreme beauty or the ultimate accuracy, just functionality on a budget. These will definitely not be 'purist' rifles. And no, I'm not interested in a Savage, Rem, etc. as I have an itch to do some tinkering.

The plan is to build three rifles. The first will be the test case and be built completely before starting on the others so all of the bugs can be worked out. Caliber isn't too important for this one, maybe a 243 or 308 as those barrels seem the easiest to find. Does anyone have a good source for new take-offs? I'm thinking of a mountain rifle contour to keep the weight down but know that they are tough to find, at least so far. Also, I figure that there shouldn't be many feeding problems with these calibers and not worried about having a short action cal in a long action.

That does the barrel and action. For a stock, I was thinking of the Boyd's laminate JRS with some extra wood cut out to lighten and bedding the action. Since that would be the stock, would also order a Bold Trigger from them. Anyone use this setup? Comments? Is it too much of a weight sacrifice with the laminate? Would a bedded walnut stock be able to withstand the elements as well?

The safety is where I am most confused. Due to the budget and limited tools/knowledge, will go with a 2 position non-winchester type. What do you folks suggest? I have heard that the two piece types tend to be a little more loose and can rattle. Is this true? What type would you suggest?

Thanks for reading this ramble, any comments would be appreciated.

06 April 2002, 07:28

Robgunbuilder

I've built two Turkingtons and have been very pleased with them. I still have two more of these actions laying on my bench. One is a 243 and the other a 308. For $40 bucks at Big 5 how can you possibly go wrong. Both shoot sub MOA and are really nice guns. As for safeties, I'm partial to timney's. Cheap and reliable. However, you can easily install a dayton Traister kit if you want. Good Luck-Rob

06 April 2002, 11:25

Clark

I have bought about 25 Mausers from Big5 Sporting Goods over the last 3 years.

I have built a 45acp from a 1903 Turk, a 308 from a VZ24, and a .243 from a 1938 Turk.

It doesn't pay if you have it done by a gunsmith, and if you do it all yourself it is possible to spend a fortune for tools.

I do it because it is fun and I love the Masuer 98 design.

There is a site where some tooling is shown for sporterizing Turks:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/g/s/gsw3/turk/turkmain.html

08 April 2002, 09:35

Bobster

SmallCal,

I like your idea. You may want to go with a Choate synthetic stock for the weather and baking lacquer finish the metal for the same reason. The Timney safety is the way to go. All you need is a Dremel tool and a cutoff wheel to cut the slot in the bolt sleeve. I have a rifle with the two-piece safety and its always coming loose. Try your hand a doing a trigger job on the issue trigger.

What do you think of this idea? I've been planning to build a "Turkington" switch-action trio. This is like a switch barrel outfit except the barrels are all connected to actions. My plan is to buy one nice Turk for around $50 and then a couple of actions without bolts for about $10 each. Next, re-barrel each action in 6mm Remington (6x57), 7x57 Mauser and 8x57 Mauser respectively with barrels of the same contour(#2). Do a 4# trigger job on one of the trigger sets. Alter the one bolt handle, install Timney safety and headspace each barrel to fit it. Then fit these identical actions to one synthetic stock. Drill and tap each action and mount scopes. Then have a custom carrying case made to hold the whole arrangement. I should have the ultimate switch-action travel rifle. To change calibers, all I need to do remove the bolt, unscrew the 2 action screws and remove the action, remove the trigger pin and transfer trigger group to replacement action,re-install replacement action into stock, replace bolt and I'm ready to go.

08 April 2002, 13:45

Pyrotek

Clark,

A mauser action .45ACP? I asked my gunsmith if it is possible to build one from scratch, he said it's crazy and said it's destined to be a single shot, it won't feed properly etc.
Can you tell me what is involved in your .45 project, maybe even show me a picture of it?

I would love to have a pistol caliber bolt-action rifle, but Spanish Destroyer carbines are so hard to find.

09 April 2002, 07:18

SmallCal

Thanks for the replies, that's what I was looking for. Don't plan on doing it all myself, but a good bit of it and horse-trading for the rest to keep the cost down. Hadn't heard of Choate stocks, will have to check them out.

Funny that the turkmain page was mentioned. That is where I decided on the project and have communicated a lot with the host of that site. Really good guy and very helpful, as you can tell from his page.

Thanks, and any other input is appreciated.

10 April 2002, 05:26

<Pfeifer>

Can someone enlighten me as to where the "ington" fits in wrt these "Turkington" conversions? I assume that this is a "fusion" of the Turkish mauser with something Remington - stocks???
Left me a bit puzzled....

Nice Turk website at the above link. Thanks Jeff P

10 April 2002, 05:47

SmallCal

The 'ington' in turkington refers to a Remington barrel. The idea behind it is that a Turkish Mauser is a large ring action with small ring threads, and the threads from a Remington (700, 7, etc.) barrel can be taken off with a lathe leaving enough metal to allow the barrel to be re-threaded to the small ring mauser dimension.

Since there are a lot of factory or custom gun take-off barrels out there from people building custom rifles, they are relatively inexpensive and, when combined with a cheap Turkish Mauser action, can provide a decent shooting gun on the cheap (if you can do much of the work yourself).

10 April 2002, 06:06

<hsp223>

Another plus side to the "turkington" project is that more calibers are available, that can be made to fit the small ring turk action. Ready made small ring barrels are generally in 6.5 caliber for the Swede 96. By using a Remington barrel you open up the possibilities of many different calibers. Due to the large ring size of the Turk, you are not limited to low pressure cartridges as you are with an M96. All with in reason of course.

10 April 2002, 09:17

<Pfeifer>

Aaaah, I see the light...grasshoppa!

What kind of pressures can be supported in one on these hybrids?

I suppose that the small ring barrels are too small for a magnum belt as well?

10 April 2002, 10:08

scot

" A mauser action .45ACP? I asked my gunsmith ... he said it's crazy....it won't feed properly etc."

He is wrong. Use a 1911 mag. It will feed fine. Make a short one for show and a regular one for plinking.

Easy way is to leave the action alone. Just screw in a 45 barrel and adapt a 45 mag.

Hard way is to shorten everything between the ring and bridge. I have an article in a gunsmithing book on shortening a M-70, same idea. Lop the bolt in half. Stick it back together with silver solder. Extend the extractor collar cut and bore a corresponding hole in the other half of the bolt. Slip them together and silver solder. Shorten the firing pin. Then the receiver needs to be shortened by removing metal from the rails. Then use a mandril and jig to hold alignment while you tig weld it back together.
Take carefull measurements of all realtionships before you start cuting things.
Now you need to make a stock form scratch. Easy right!!

I would probably take my issue Turk and rebarrel it with a GPC (Numrich) barrel. Turn the barrel to a reasonable contour. Shorten the issue stock to make a carbine and retain as much of the original hardware as possible. Block the magazine box hole with wood. Cut a mortoise for the 45 mag. Adapt the original floor plate with a hole for the 45 mag and catch of some kind.

Now you have a "rare experimental mauser". It would be a fun rifle on many levels.
It would be an interesting project and an eye-catcher.

But, yeah you CAN do it. Just takes time.

Also see Hatcher's Notebook, It has a picture 45 ACP Springfield '03.

10 April 2002, 15:22

SmallCal

Pfeifer -

The barrel would not be the limiting factor for a belted magnum, it would be the action. The barrel would be capable of handling the pressures associated with the caliber for which it is chambered. As far as I know, the Turk was made by Mauser in Germany (I believe) under a Turkish contract and should be like the other large rings Mauser made, just with smaller barrel threads. That said, you would run into all of the issues that you would run into on typical a large ring. Please note that I am no metallurgist (sp?) and you should search the other posts to find other opinions on the make up of Mausers and pressures.

If others have a different opinion, I understand and don't mind being corrected if I am wrong. I am definitely not an expert and still have much to learn.

Thanks.

11 April 2002, 09:48

Pyrotek

Scot,

Thanks for the tips on the .45 thingy.

11 April 2002, 10:22

<Pfeifer>

smallcal,
Thanks for the input. I don't like belted cases in general, but just thought I'd pose the question. It sounds like anything with the .30-'06 boltface or smaller is fair game for a turkington then. I'll have to think about this one somemore. JP

11 April 2002, 14:32

<JBelk>

Thanks yall--

Now I know why my used barrel pile disappeared in a hurry at the last gunshow. Maybe I should raise my prices.

11 April 2002, 15:54

Major Caliber

I thought of the 45 magazine before I read that's what he did. I have thought about using a M-16 magazine on a Mauser

12 April 2002, 14:56

<Jim Dannels>

I am Green as grass on this subject. But am now starting to get some free cash and would like to sporterize a Mauser.
Where do I find sutible actions at reasonable prices?
Should have specified I would like to build a 7mm Mauser(grew up reading Jack O Conner sing its praises). And 358 Winchester,cause I think it is big enough for everything on the continent with jacketed bullets and cast bullets would be easy to cast.

[This message has been edited by Jim Dannels (edited 04-12-2002).]

12 April 2002, 15:05

Scout

I have a wheel barrel for some of that free cash. For a beginner action, I would go to the nearest Big Five sporting goods store. They have some sales on VZ 24 actions every once and a while. A cheaper direction is the Turkish 38. But remember, It is a small ring barrel in a large ring receiver. You can do what I did, and get both. That way you have the cheap one to %$%@# up first.
Then you can apply your new learned skill to the VZ, which I stated before, is a true large ring and much better action .
So, where do I meet for my free cash?

Scout.....

12 April 2002, 15:27

Clark

Not only is my Turk 45 a single shot, it has no barrel chamfer and the mouth of the case sticks on the edge of the chamber. So I can fire one shot per minute.

Also, the barrel is a Shileen .452 26" untapered barrel blank. It make the rifle, with a 40x scope, wiegh 17 pounds.

Not only that, the chamber is a straight .469" and the brass must be pre sized on the web. This is an extra minute per round.
Then the loaded round must be resized to fit.

I made it that size because my carbide 45acp die is .467" and the brass springs back .002". The throat was made with a standard 45acp throater from Manson.

The gun has done several .7" 3 shot groups at 100 meters with 460 Rowland +P+ loads. Everyone loves to shoot it, becasue the recoil is so low and the holes in the target are so big. The very good and very bad groups are all touching, because the holes are so big. THe plywood comes flying out the back of the target and can be seen though the scope.

This sounds impracticle, but like most carbine cartridges, it is just fun and everyone wants to shoot it.

0) 45 acp................. 185 gr 7.6 gr AA#5 jams w/stock Patriot
spring
1) 45 acp..................185 gr 10.2 gr AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P...............185 gr 10.8 gr AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super................185 gr 12.4 gr AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland............ 185 gr 14.5 gr AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup
5) Easy extraction ........185 gr 15.0 gr AA#5 1550 fps 20 oz Patriot
6) Case starts to stretch..185 gr 15.2 gr AA#5 1770 fps 15 lb 98 Mauser
7) difficult extraction ...185 gr 16.0 gr AA#5 1850 fps 15 lb 98 Mauser
8) primer falls out .......185 gr 16.5 gr AA#5 1900 fps 15 lb 98 Mauser

I gotta chamfer that chamber before I take it prairie dog hunting

13 April 2002, 02:21

SmallCal

Jim D -

I agree with Scout's post. I am starting with the Turks to try my hand at the basic Mauser work (polishing, lapping the lugs, squaring the bolt face, stock bedding and fitting, etc.). If I enjoy it and am good enough at it, I'll try my hand on something better like the VZ 24 and use a nicely figured walnut stock, Pac-Nor or similar barrel, etc. This way I have the learning curve on the cheap rifles (Turks can be had for $40-$45 for the entire rifle) and not out that much if it doesn't come out like I want. Plus I can see what the costs will be and decide if I want to do more or just buy a factory rifle.

To Everyone:

Thanks for all of the input. My rifles are in and I've ordered two Bold triggers (figure I can practice on the two I take off and try to lose the creep and lighten them up), have a couple of different stocks on the way, and will be ordering the timney's and lapping compound today. Hope to have something to hunt whitetails with this fall.
Thanks again.

13 April 2002, 04:32

<hsp223>

When buying a Turk M38 be aware that not all 38's are the same. Most are large ring actions which take samll ring threads but some are standard reworked german Gew 98's. Turkey did a rearsenal in 1938 and specified that that the new receivers should take the the small ring barrel of the 1903 model since they had stockpiles of these barrels. Nobody knows if they just ordered new receivers or complete rifles or if they made the receivers themselves (there are no foreign marks etc). At any rate the receiver has a extension on the front of it that accepts the upper handguard. Many refer to this as a counterbored receiver. It can be milled off and the action would then be the same length as a standard 98. The problem arises when in 1954 the Turkish army refurbished some standard Gew 98's they had around. They counterbored the front of the receiver to accept the upper handguard. By doing this they removed a couple of barrel threads (not good). One person that I know of has removed the barrel from one of these and found he only had 3 1/2 workable barrel threads, which is in my opinion not enough. To identify these different rifles you can simply look at the crest or measure the length of the front ring. Those marked as "KKale" are the standard turk M38, these also are about 1/8 to 3/16's longer. Those maked with a large A and have a T and F superimposed on the crossbar of the A are reworked German Gew 98s and are not safe. These also have a Th98 on the side rail. An alternative to the Turk is the VZ 98/22. These are about 70.00 right now and are Czech made and crested but have turkish marking on them, probably a contract order. As far as I know these receivers are not scrubbed which can be hard to find on a VZ 24 HTH

[This message has been edited by hsp223 (edited 04-12-2002).]

13 April 2002, 13:34

TSJ

If one of you fellows has a hankering for a 270 on your turk, I've got a Rem 700 barrel in one. Nothing I need,would find a new home to anyone who wants to pay the shipping, let me know.

14 April 2002, 05:03

<CAL9 from planet Fargo>

quote:
Originally posted by TSJ:
If one of you fellows has a hankering for a 270 on your turk, I've got a Rem 700 barrel in one. Nothing I need,would find a new home to anyone who wants to pay the shipping, let me know.

Well, I don't know if anyone has replied to you for dibbs, but if not, I'll jump on this one. I'll send you an email also, just in case you don't get back here often.

CAL9