Bargain Receiver on Gunbroker

09 February 2009, 20:33

quote:
Originally posted by Mike in Michigan:
Hey Gang,
I actually sent this guy a PM suggesting he was misleading the ignorant. Here is his reply, cut and pasted (lines of dots to separate are mine):
.................................

If you attend the Trinidad State Junior College, CO for gunsmithing, you learn how to do this, I attended, graduated, as well as Montgomery NC and 20 years of Master Gunsmithing and Machining in the US Marines. I also teach gunsmithing and machining classes, SOOOO I think I know what I am talking about
.......................

I choose not to include his name and email in this PUBLIC forum?

Mike,

Maybe you could PM this fellow back and inform him that whatever his machining duties and experiences were in the Marine Corps, it DID NOT include welding up split receivers and placing them into service. However, speaking with some experience, Marines do like to blow shit up.

Perhaps that is where his true expertise lies...

Oooohrah!

09 February 2009, 21:02

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by 22WRF:
Let me ask a serious question about welding.

Seems to me that we rely on welding to hold a lot of things that take a lot of pressure.
So, while I am not interested in these receivers, my question for welders: is there a type of steel and a weld that could fix these receivers such that they could be safe?

I have very limited experience with electron beam welding....but I'd be willing to bet this receiver could be welded and safe for use using this method.

The better question however.....is any welding process going to be economical....and would you buy the receiver afterwards knowing it was welded no matter what technology was used....

To answer the question...Yes....but why? Good Mauser actions still are relatively cheap and plentiful.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

09 February 2009, 22:29

tin can

TIG the joint in an environment of shield gas. 100% penetration with low carbon more-or-less matching the parent material, anneal... then re-machine, rethread the whole front end.

...take about 45 minutes, I can't see being charged more than thirty bucks for it.

09 February 2009, 23:42

Michael Robinson

Pretty expensive for an ugly paperweight, isn't it?

10 February 2009, 00:04

olcrip

Is this such a rare action that you would need to repair that death trap?

10 February 2009, 02:22

dempsey

quote:
If you attend the Trinidad State Junior College, CO for gunsmithing, you learn how to do this, I attended, graduated, as well as Montgomery NC and 20 years of Master Gunsmithing and Machining in the US Marines. I also teach gunsmithing and machining classes, SOOOO I think I know what I am talking about

This fellow sorta has a familiar ring in his writing style.

10 February 2009, 03:09

J.D.Steele

Mike, I graduated from TSJC in '67 and I can assure you that the only welded receiver rings we saw were the ones we were told NOT to try to duplicate! I remember one 1903 Springfield that had been welded twice before it finally blew..... We did, however, learn to shorten and lengthen bolt actions, but with the cut always located well behind the front ring.

However with what I've witnessed in recent years since the advent of TIG & other welding processes, I'd hafta say that a repair would definitely be possible, and with enough remaining safety to satisfy even me.

However I'd also hafta say 2 more things: A) I'd be amazed if any professional would do this work for less than $100-$200 and $300 would probably be closer for anyone whom I'd trust ($1000-$1500 for a high-dollar double), and B) I certainly think this USMC/gunsmith guy, whoever he is, musta got too much Agent Orange when he was in the Crotch! Regards, Joe

10 February 2009, 03:38

Trax

Though not viable, technically you could weld that receiver and make it safe to use.
Proper welds are generally stronger than the parent-component material. Generally speaking, success would depend highly as to what extent you can minimise/eliminate weakness of the annealed HAZ zone in the parent material immediately adjacent the weld.
However the HAZ zone issue becomes less significant considering the receiver has to go in for reHT anyway.
You would need skilled experienced people who really know their stuff about steels and welding.

10 February 2009, 03:43

22WRF

J.D.

Interesting. The reason being that while it may not be worth it on the receivers being offered, it might be worth it on others. In my time I have seen a few Oberndorf receivers that would have benefited from some welding on the front ring.

I am curious. How would you go about the repair? Would most of the cost be the labor cost? If so, which part of the labor cost.

10 February 2009, 05:34

z1r

quote:
Originally posted by tin can:
TIG the joint in an environment of shield gas. 100% penetration with low carbon more-or-less matching the parent material, anneal... then re-machine, rethread the whole front end.

...take about 45 minutes, I can't see being charged more than thirty bucks for it.

Hmm, I'm sure there are tons of people on this forum that would love you to post up who is capable of this AND who only charges $35. Shit, I'll farm all my bolt welding out to them, lol.

10 February 2009, 05:47

J.D.Steele

1) fab fixture to obtain and maintain dimensions while welding, 2) scarf groove for filler metal 3) tack ends & then middle of crack, 4) remove for pre-weld inspection of alignment, correct if necessary & return to fixture, 5) preheat to at least 500-600F for ~60 min, 6) fill the groove, may take more than one pass, depending, 7) slow cooldown over ~12-24 hrs 8) straighten, may involve heating again, 9) remachine ring and threads, 10) send out for re-heat-treatment. Of course all welding to be done in an inert environment. This is quick & dirty and I'm certainly no welding expert, but I did spend many years working in a nuclear power plant and got to see some mighty fine nuclear-grade welding. Some of the real welding experts here can give you a lot better account, though.

In the case of a bolt rifle the fixture fabbing could be simple but in the case of a double then it could be a real PITA.
Regards, Joe

10 February 2009, 06:02

z1r

quote:
Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
1) fab fixture to obtain and maintain dimensions while welding, 2) scarf groove for filler metal 3) tack ends & then middle of crack, 4) remove for pre-weld inspection of alignment, correct if necessary & return to fixture, 5) preheat to at least 500-600F for ~60 min, 6) fill the groove, may take more than one pass, depending, 7) slow cooldown over ~12-24 hrs 8) straighten, may involve heating again, 9) remachine ring and threads, 10) send out for re-heat-treatment. Of course all welding to be done in an inert environment. This is quick & dirty and I'm certainly no welding expert, but I did spend many years working in a nuclear power plant and got to see some mighty fine nuclear-grade welding. Some of the real welding experts here can give you a lot better account, though.

In the case of a bolt rifle the fixture fabbing could be simple but in the case of a double then it could be a real PITA.
Regards, Joe

And in the end, you'll have spent twice as much as you could have bought a complete, unmolested receiver for. In this case the effort & expense is wasted.

10 February 2009, 06:09

GSP7

Id use some of my old 6011 rod or what ever is in my junk rod box and just stick weld those two bent recievers to the cracked on. Tie a line to it and use all 3 receivers for a duck decoy anchor , then buy a new husky m96 reciever for $35 if I realy needed one.