The Accurate Reloading Forums
Home grown bolt action?
24 January 2004, 21:38
Lar45Home grown bolt action?
Hi all, with the success(?) of my 30Erin ugliness, I'm thinking of doing a rifle in the same caliber. 38 special necked down to 30cal loaded to around 13-20k with a 113gn cast bullet. I'm thinking of a simple bolt action design. I'd like to have twin front locking lugs, but I don't know how I'd put the locking lug ways inside the action with my limited Smithy lathe/mill combo unless I could make a broach of some kind??. Rear locking lugs are an option and I think with the low pressure that it wouldn't cause a problem. Plus I'm not looking for benchrest accuracy, just something to plink with. I've got two Garand barrels to work with. Thoughts on a simple low pressure turnbolt?
24 January 2004, 22:48
ClarkGlenn,
This forum has lots of professional posters who make a living making guns that look like jewelry.
But I will be interested in any amateur experiments you do.
If you want to make a piece of simple bolt action for fun, scale up a cheap 22 rim fire is one way.
I have not made a gun from scratch since I was a teen ager when I made a fire cracker gun from water pipe.
The way I do things, VZ24s and Turk Mausers that I hoarded when BIG5 had them on sale is my starting point.
--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.
25 January 2004, 02:09
tiggertateI can't quote the specific actions but a LOT of the turn of the century military bolt guns used the bolt handle only. They were largely black powder, as was the .38 Special at one time, I think.
25 January 2004, 02:44
Jay, IdahoYou might consider a "full dia. bolt" design. Look at a Weatherby Mk5. A number of custom actions are built on this design, Geske, some Halls. The Texas Magnum was this style. It is much easier to cut short clearance for the lugs from the front than broach the full length. The BIG 50 plans use this idea.
Another solution is to have a machine shop cut the raceways with a wire EDM. Or make a one tooth broach and take a few hours to broach the slots. Or look into building a "cutter box" like cut rifle barrelmakers use.
25 January 2004, 03:54
jeffeossoah.. interesting...
here's teh action to model such a low power rifle from... the spanish destroyer.... it's in 9 largo....
I have always wanted to rebarrel one of these into a super light bolt gun in 7.62x25 tokarov.. the round gets 1500+fps in a 5" barrel cz 52 pistol...
http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/tokarev/tokssnb.htmljust think what it would do with a 16.5" super ultra light rifle?
jeffe
25 January 2004, 06:13
RicochetQuote:
I have always wanted to rebarrel one of these into a super light bolt gun in 7.62x25 tokarov.. the round gets 1500+fps in a 5" barrel cz 52 pistol... http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/tokarev/tokssnb.html
just think what it would do with a 16.5" super ultra light rifle?
That would be an interesting project, Jeffe! If you do it, post pictures and results!
I think that'd make a nice little carbine cartridge, and whereas 7.63mm Mauser ammo got nearly unobtainable some years back, the Tokarev version's pretty readily available and inexpensive nowadays. (I've always liked that little cartridge. The 7.65mm Parabellum, too!)
25 January 2004, 08:32
Lar45Anybody have detailed pics of the Spanish Destroyer carbine?
25 January 2004, 10:40
bartscheQuote:
" I'd like to have twin front locking lugs, but I don't know how I'd put the locking lug ways inside the action with my limited Smithy lathe/mill combo "
Just a thought, Lar. With the machinery you have would it be doable if the barral screwed into a bushing and the bushing screwed over the front of the action. You might even have the barrel portion of the bushing a relative small thread size and the action end of the bushing another thread size.You may want a separate shroud or bushing screwed on the rear end of the action to facilitate maching of the ways. Why 
it might even look nice. Does that sound like a lot of screwing? 
roger
25 January 2004, 10:46
bartscheQuote:
Glenn,
"The way I do things, VZ24s and Turk Mausers that I hoarded when BIG5 had them on sale is my starting point."
-- Clark!
You missed some And I got em. roger 
25 January 2004, 12:46
tincanthe destroyer carbine has always held my interest. like you say chambered for the 9 largo- actually the same as the 9 Mauser, the 30 Mauser necked up. the 30 Mauser is a hot round in it's own right(a tad longer than the tokarev, if I remember correctly). thru a rifle barrel and backed by two lugs perhaps it could be pepped up a bit, too.
I've always had a yen to put one of these together.
how plausible would necking the 30 Mauser case down to 25 or 22 be? I've always kicked that idea around, too.
-tincan
25 January 2004, 15:17
jeffeossoiirc, the 7.62x25 is the 30 mauser, but loaded to higher pressure.
someone sell me a destroyer CHEAP
jeffe
25 January 2004, 15:26
tincanQuote:
the 7.62x25 is the 30 mauser, but loaded to higher pressure
don't think they are exactly identical. the case is a tad shorter than the 30.
-tincan
25 January 2004, 16:37
jeffeossoTincan,
I Thought the 30 mauser is the 7.62x25, and the 30 luger was a pipsqeek.. but, looking about a bit, you are correct, the x25 is slightly longer...
here's a link where the 30 mauser is fired in a cz 52
http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/tokarev/tokyugo.htmlbut here's another link saying the 30tokarov can use 30 mauser dies...
weird...
oh well, i want the 7.62x25... i'll reload it would with a 18-20 inch barrel, 90 gr xtp bullets,,, 2000 fps, zero recoil... nice truck/atv/takedown gun
or neck it down to .17 and get over 3100fps... it's about the same capacity as a 17x218bee
jeffe
26 January 2004, 04:34
tincanI bought a rebuilt mauser C96 some years ago- a chinese arsenal deal, the gunsmith made it from a Bolo upper and regular Mauser frame lower. I bought tokarev ammo for it( about 500 rounds chicom corrosive berdan)and the pistol would not fire them. I'd get a dimple in the primer and nothing else. I tried it enough to know it wasn't the primers being bad. I never tried any "real" 30 Mauser in it because I haven't had an opportunity to buy some.
could be the surplus ammo
could be the gun
could be the difference between the 30 and the 7.65
I hope I can locate some 30 at the gunshow soon.
Quote:
oh well, i want the 7.62x25... i'll reload it would with a 18-20 inch barrel, 90 gr xtp bullets,,, 2000 fps, zero recoil... nice truck/atv/takedown gun
or neck it down to .17 and get over 3100fps... it's about the same capacity as a 17x218bee
nowwwwwwwwwww it gets interesting. a perfect knockaround farm gun in the truck. I wonder if the receiver can take the increased pressure of a necked-down cartridge.
-tincan
26 January 2004, 13:45
Lar45The pics of the carbines show the outside of the action, but If someone could come up with a pic of the bolt outside of the gun, it would give me a better idea of how it is put together. They are looking kind of expensive. Several years ago, the dealer price on them was about $115. I should have bought a few.
28 January 2004, 16:08
ClarkTincan,
I just ordered a 30 Mauser reamer from Clymer, because they are cheaper than 7.62x25mm reamers.
I have a broomhandle that peirces primers with 7.62x25mm ammo.
Maybe we need to adjust our firing pins.
Lar45,
You can use the reamer on my lathe, if you ever cross the Cascades.
28 January 2004, 18:19
Lar45Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.