I've been thinking hard about getting a new bird dog. I used a GSP for a decade, and he was deadly on pheasants, although a bit wide ranging (too much field trial champions in his bloodline).

I want a dog with a strong drive to bust brush, a good nose, and willing to work close to medium range. I would prefer a pointing breed over a flushing breed.

I went hunting yesterday with a gent who had two black Labs. They were almost worthless IMO.

Although they stayed in close, they didn't show any drive to bust brush. Instead they stayed directly in front of him about 10 yds.

He knocked a rooster down and the bird rolled around and then ran into some cover. The dogs couldn't seem to find any scent at all, and would only go into the cover if the owner went in and called them. There was no doubt in my mind, that if old Buck (the GSP) was alive, he would have trailed the bird down.

I have hunted with Brits before, and although some of them are really good pheasant dogs, I have never been a fan of how they hunt.

I am leaning towards either a Vizla, a German Wire-haired pointer, on another GSP.

What are your thoughts??

Thanks.

BH63

Get a Deutsch-Drahthaar from a breeder in phez country. You will not be disappointed. They are tough and relentless on cripples.

I prefer the GSP over the GWP as they are easier to keep clean (my dogs are also house dogs). Not enough experience with Vizla's to say yes or no.

I hunt with a Llewelyn setter . Medium range , great nose, not high strung, only down side I see is coat maintenance with burrs. Soft mouth and great around the family. Little larger framed than English setters. Do well in Winter conditions

If you have the room & the time to exercise them, the GSP is perfect IMHO.

If not, Griffon's, Draatthar's or GWP's are fine breeds, tend not to range

like a GSP, but are great hunters. All my falconry buddies run setters

who likewise are great hunters but range even farther than my GSP's?

Have hunted with a few Vizla's & Weimaraner's, they were OK, but didn't seem to

hunt as hard as the GSP's, GWP's or setters?

I've also had & hunted with some incredible labs over the years, would be

hard to beat a nice pointing lab on pheasants. I, unfortunately, love to chase

sharptail grouse, Hungarian partridge,.. in big open country as well as pheasant

so need a breed that can cover the terrain. GSP's seem to be perfect.

Good luck with your decision, post photos of your new dog!

Jim

We got a new GSP this year. Started scouring the internet about 3 months ago. Found a started GWP, took her home for a hunt...not started. Got our money back. Had a line on another dog but the mans wife put her foot down and wouldn’t let the dog go. Long story long, ended up with a 5 yr old GSP female that was given to us under promise to hunt her hard. Wow, couldn’t be happier. Active, birdy, listens and just plain lives to hunt. Get your feelers out there and one may fall in your lap.

Thanks for all the responses. I kind of wondered about the GWP's tendency to pick up burrs.

I once ran my GSP and a Chesapeake Retriever I owned through some thick stuff for pheasant.

The Chessie was a mess with cockleburrs wrapped up tighter than a can of biscuits. My fingers were bleeding and raw by the time I got her burr free.

The GSP? Two cockleburrs had stuck to his nylon collar and that was it.

Still I do want a close ranging, hard hunting dog, not afraid to bust the thick stuff.

I'll let you guys know what I wind up with.

Merry Christmas.

BH63

I had a GSP. BEST dog I have ever owned. GREAT on Wiley old wild pheasants and great on others as well. Miss that dog every day. Can’t go wrong with a GSP but they do need regular exercise.

Buff, what part of the country are you in? Friends back home in Oregon are loving their wirehaired pointing griffons and Pudelpointers.
I don't think I would choose either down here in the desert.

quote:

I prefer the GSP over the GWP as they are easier to keep clean (my dogs are also house dogs). Not enough experience with Vizla's to say yes or no.

Not if you find a properly coated dog. DD tend also to be a calmer dog...better off switch.

My experience with Labs is quite opposite yours. I had a Chocolate Lab that retreeved over 500 roosters for me on my pheasant hunts over his life span of 13 years. He would bust brush, point, flush, catch roosters every once in a while coming up, and chase roosters down. I recall once where we were standing on a bluff when a rooster broke free and we shot. The rooster sailed a good quarter of a mile and he took off from the bluff, covered all of that distance and retreeved the bird and brought it back to hand. He did not wide range, nor did I have to chase him down or have him wear a shock collar. I guess it just depends on the dog and the training. In addition, he was the best damn family and guard dog you could get. I've also owned GSPs and found them to be good, although hyper active and hard to keep close without a shock collar. I have also owned Weimaraners and do not prefer them on upland hunting.

I live in Colorado and have hunted ducks, geese, quail, and pheasants for 20 years here.

The area where I am hunting now is pretty thick CRP. I stay out of the big cornfields and milo fields.

My GSP was a great hunting dog. Probably one in a lifetime. He did have field trial champions in his bloodline and only through good training was I able to keep him in close-to-medium range. Occasionally he would get out a little far, and needed discipline.

As I am older, I want a slower, closer range dog.

As to labs, I have no doubt they can be some of the best pheasant dogs; it's just that the two I hunted behind seemed to not have a lot of hunting drive and didn't seem to want to get in the thick stuff or even look for a downed bird.

Cheers,

BH63

I think the key is to get a dog from "foot hunter" stock regardless of breed. My first pointing dog (almost 50 years ago) was a English pointer, & I needed a horse to keep up (we also did not have the electronics then & my dog training skills were only what I had read). A friend currently has three English pointers that are easily handled by a foot hunter. My current dog is a GSP, thinking ahead I am once again considering a English pointer or another GSP. I have had long haired dogs in the past, short hair / wash & wear are a must for me. I have no interest in spending the time cleaning out the burrs & mud.

^
You make some good points.

BH63

Just missed out on a GWP pup. This morning I am going to call about some GSP pups. Wish me luck.

BH63

I have a 18mo pudelpointer and she's been more than I could have hoped for in a bird dog so far. I had a great pointing lab 15 years ago, but comparing her to my pudelpointer now I realize how weak her "pointing" and overall drive were in comparison.

My PP has a medium dense/medium harsh wirecoat and I've yet to have a cocklebur stick to her. By the end of winter her coat is between 3-4" long and straight. She goes from soaking wet to completely dry in about 5 minutes just standing there regardless of the temperatures which is a huge plus up here in AK. But I've also run her in southeast Utah in the red rock desert and she did great (just drank more often than normal). PPs have a wide range of coat characteristics and can be slick to wooly mammoth style. The right breeders will talk about where you are and what you primarily will be hunting to help choose a pup from a litter that should produce the best coat type to match.

Excellent family dog with my young kids, very good off switch in the house but a monster bird drive in the field. Picks up on commands very easily too. My dog tends to hunt fairly close in the field working between 40-75 yards most of the time occasionally ranging out to 100-125. She also comes with me on all my big game hunts and when fishing and she knows to stay at my side. I've got her trained to give me a particular alert when she smells or sees a grizzly which has come in handy a few times.

Plus, she doesn't shed or irritate my family members with pet allergies.

Ken, burr resistance is a real issue. An uncle had a golden retriever from good hunting stock, but I had to carry him from the field on a pheasant hunt, as his armpits were almost sewn shut by cockleburrs.
We'll be needing some photos of that PP of yours, Justahunter.

Hopefully those show up.

I was supposed to go look at some GSP pups this morning, but wife vetoed the idea.

No new bird dog for me.

Ouch, that is rough.

The key I think is to get her holding the puppy before she comprehends that you want to keep one. Then she has to tell those adorable little eyes that she doesn't want them.

^
Yep, but you got to let the missus win a few.

BH63

Justanotherhunter,
Your PP is a dandy! Looks to me like a once in a lifetime bird dog / companion.

I like the GWP's, DD's and PP's. So many variables within the breeds. My best advice is pick the "Breeder" more than picking the "Breed". Getting a pup from a proven, established breeder will most likely provide you with a pup that has the DNA. All three of these breeds tend to have very large personalities and require a lot of human interaction to be at their best.

Hard not to fall in love ...

http://pudelpointer.net/

Definitely hard not to fall in love with the PP. We're very happy that we got one of Bob's pups from Cedarwood Gun Dogs

I have been a lifetime fan, endorser, breeder, lover of the Gordon Setter. However, I’m seriously considering the field lines of the English Springer for my next dog. Opens up the agenda to ducks and I prefer flushing dogs for pheasant and ruffed grouse. Pointing dogs like my Gordon’s were fantastic on quail and woodcock and any type of pen raised birds. I just like the close working and versatilitynof the English Springer. There’s a hunting dog out there for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherhunter:












Hopefully those show up.

Great looking and versatile hunter there. Color is fantastic.

If hunting stocked birds, or your local wild varieties tend to run on you, it's hard to beat a good Springer.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
I have been a lifetime fan, endorser, breeder, lover of the Gordon Setter. However, I’m seriously considering the field lines of the English Springer for my next dog. Opens up the agenda to ducks and I prefer flushing dogs for pheasant and ruffed grouse. Pointing dogs like my Gordon’s were fantastic on quail and woodcock and any type of pen raised birds. I just like the close working and versatilitynof the English Springer. There’s a hunting dog out there for everyone.

+1 on gordon setters....I use mine on grouse, black cock and capercallie (spelling..?) here in Norway...in addition he has a strong guard instinct..

Pudelpointer, Pudelpointer, Pudelpointer. Took him out at 18 months. A wounded pheasant went over a ridge and the guide said “Don’t bother. We’ll never find him.” Duke took off after him. I thought it would take me hours to find my puppy Duke. I looked up and he was standing on the ridge, pheasant in mouth. I thought my guide was going to feint! He’s also a love to have around the house. Him or me, my wife would take him for sure!

BH63~ depending on where your located in Colorado, you Might want to contact Quartermoon Golden’s out of Berthoud Co. some of the finest pheasant dogs that I have had the privilege to hunt over. Erica Christensen is the breeder Chuck.

^
Thanks but my wife kind of put a halt to my plans.

BH63

It happens

My brother is fond of his Wirehaired pointing Griffon. Not sure who the breeder was though.

Well I under stand your wive votoed your Idea of a new dog. Sorry about that.
I have to be carefull about getting a new dog or the wife will spend all her free time on the computer shopping for a good quailty dog at a decent breeder at a decent price.

I loved my Visula. she was a hunting dog not just a bird dog. She hunted birds and rabbits equilly hard. great dog. She was ther runt of the litter so got her cheap and no pappers with her.

https://beta-static.photobucke...ReallyDaisyJewel.jpg

I was lost after she passed. I mentioned I should look for a new pup. My wife is instantly on the computer. For over a month I had to field what about this bread or that.
3 days befor I had total Knee surgery we brought home our new Ryman style English Setter. I was sort of dreading a puppy because of those neddle teeth. this pup we names Stormy has the softest tough mouth I've ever seen in a dog. She is a very good hunter and was trained to work close.





Al

I’d go with a GSP with a good shock collar. I have shot thousands of pheasant over 6 GSP’s and now a GSP and a vizsla. Vizslas need A LOT of attention.

A good well trained dog doesn't need a shock collar.
good way to ruin a good dog as they won't want to hunt if they are expecting to get a shock.

Al

You are correct, if you aren’t using the collet correctly you can ruin a dog. It’s rare that I have to shock my dogs once the collars are on. Once the collars are off the dogs are a mile down the road.

Like a very good friend dog trainer told me years ago. Come is one of the first basic cammands a dog is taught. once taught they continue to come as long as they are not yelled and screamed at and beaten even by some.

Of course he is correct I would not come if some one was yelling and screaming at me like a wild man.

Al

I prefer GSP.