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50-100-450
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Fellas:
I just purchased a deluxe 1886 in 50-100-450. What can you tell me about the caliber, history, ballistics, etc.

I depart for a Florida vacation in a couple of days and the rifle will be here upon my return around the 17th.

I want to know everything about the caliber. I understand far fewer were made than the common 50-110. I have brass, dies, and two bullet moulds so I am ready to go. I also know the formulas for conversion of black powder to smokeless so reloading will be easy.

Thanks, guys.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation

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Posts: 6781 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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This what I found in my 1980 copy of Frank Barnes Cartridges of the World.



Roger
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I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along.
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*we band of 45-70ers*
 
Posts: 2408 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Mr. Cal and all;

Can any 50-110-300 be a 50-100-450? I understand the case dimensions are the same, but are there issues with throat length, rifle twist, sighting, or feeding using a heavier and longer bullet in rifles built around a short 300 grain bullet?

The Fred Branes material implies the loading SS are interchangeable. However, we all know the resource has many, for lack of a better word, “errors.”
 
Posts: 4308 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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Cal,
have a great vacation!
You appear to have a rapid response on your question and there will likely be more on the way.

Your new rifle should be a big buster. As you know, my Miroku/Winchester 1886 .45-90 (.458 2.4) can push out 300 grain bullets way above 2600 fps and it has taken ele and buff in Africa with 450 grain bullets at 2150 fps.
So you can load your new toy soft for little
deer and when needed, load it hot for the largest of game.
Have fun with it!


NRA Life Benefactor Member,
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Posts: 1916 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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Thanks gents.
LHeym500: From what I gather, both the 50-110 and the 50-100 are the same case. The 100 has a 450 grains bullet compared to the 300 grains of the 50-110. However, due to action length, the OAL is the same--the heavier bullet is just seated deeper. Both have the same flat nose profile.

Rifling twist is quicker in the 50-100 to stabilize the heavier bullet. I understand the 450 grains bullet will not shoot accurately in the 50-110's slower twist. However, the quicker twist of the 50-100 should stabilize a lighter bullet as in the 50-110.

The rifle will be here upon my return home from ten days in sunny Florida. My brass, dies, shell holder, powder (IMR 4198 and FFFg Swiss), and bullets in both grain weights are on my table ready to go. I will post data and targets shortly after I begin.
Cheers, all,
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation

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Posts: 6781 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Thank you Mr. Cal.
 
Posts: 4308 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Thanks gents.
LHeym500: From what I gather, both the 50-110 and the 50-100 are the same case. The 100 has a 450 grains bullet compared to the 300 grains of the 50-110. However, due to action length, the OAL is the same--the heavier bullet is just seated deeper. Both have the same flat nose profile.

Rifling twist is quicker in the 50-100 to stabilize the heavier bullet. I understand the 450 grains bullet will not shoot accurately in the 50-110's slower twist. However, the quicker twist of the 50-100 should stabilize a lighter bullet as in the 50-110.

The rifle will be here upon my return home from ten days in sunny Florida. My brass, dies, shell holder, powder (IMR 4198 and FFFg Swiss), and bullets in both grain weights are on my table ready to go. I will post data and targets shortly after I begin.
Cheers, all,
Cal

My Turnbull 50-110 (marked 50 Express) shoots 450 grain, 500 grain and 535 grain bullets just as well as 300's. The twist arguement might be a concern in an original, but my guess is a modern gun will shoot all bullet weights fine.
 
Posts: 5329 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Dave Scoville wrote a couple of articles 15-20 years ago in Rifle magazine about his custom Turnbull converted Miroku half octagon/round 3/4 mag 1886 takedown in 50-100-450. He made up loads containing Swiss 1 and 1/2 black under an RCBS 450gr hard cast bullet. He took it to Africa and wacked a Buffalo with it. That rifle has a 1:20” badger barrel. It shot 2” groups at 200 yards with buckhorn rear sights and sour dough up front. If I can find the articles, I can mail copies to you.


Matt
FISH!!

Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."
 
Posts: 3123 | Location: Northern Colorado | Registered: 22 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Seems to me your buffalo ready for sure, a 450 at around 2000 to 2100 fps is a DGR for sure..

Pedersoli makes a beautiful knockoff Win 71 in 45-70, I been thinking it would make a nice big bore with very little work..Has anyone had any experience with these Italian knockoffs, they sure look good on the outside..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

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Posts: 37867 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Dave Scoville wrote a couple of articles 15-20 years ago in Rifle magazine about his custom Turnbull converted Miroku half octagon/round 3/4 mag 1886 takedown in 50-100-450. He made up loads containing Swiss 1 and 1/2 black under an RCBS 450gr hard cast bullet. He took it to Africa and wacked a Buffalo with it. That rifle has a 1:20” badger barrel. It shot 2” groups at 200 yards with buckhorn rear sights and sour dough up front. If I can find the articles, I can mail copies to you.


Thanks, Matt. I will look forward to reading them.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation

______________________________
 
Posts: 6781 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Here are the first targets from the .50-100-450. She shoots well. I will post some pics soon.

One question for you fellas: The rifle letters as a model 1886, 50-100-450, octagon barrel, full magazine, takedown, shotgun butt, checkered stock with pistol grip. The problem is this deluxe 50-100 has been reblued in the past and it's a crappy job. I know Turnbull does fine restorations but it's a long process and expensive. Any others you know of who can do a quality blue to original specs?
Cal

First target, six shots then three shots with my 4-bore. Aim point was the black square.



Second target, six shots. Aim point was the center of target.



Third target of six shots with a 450 grains bullet and the charge of 4198 was to duplicate the original black powder load. For Winchester's biggest cartridge of the day, recoil is quite mild. Of course the nirto for black in a .500 express double was 55 grains of 4198 and a 450 grains bullet. Aim point was the center of target. Distance of all targets was 50 yards over a seated rest.



_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation

______________________________
 
Posts: 6781 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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That thing shoots nice! Are you using a Dacron (pillow stuffing) wad over the 4198?


Matt
FISH!!

Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."
 
Posts: 3123 | Location: Northern Colorado | Registered: 22 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Yes. I used dacron in everything except the bore rifles.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation

______________________________
 
Posts: 6781 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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