Dear lovers of lever guns-

Reading through many old posts regarding optic selection for a 45-70 lever gun used for relatively close range work (less than 200 yds), I want to open a current discussion on the topic.

I have a Marlin 1895GSBL guide gun (18.5" bbl) that I'm attempting to setup for midwest deer hunting after some rule changes which are now allowing the 45-70 Govt. In my opinion this is to be a utilitarian single purpose rifle and not meant to be very "classic" except for the operation of the action and caliber choice. Just a down'n'dirty killing machine. Over the last 25+ years during the short gun season we have typically party hunted using "drivers" and "standers". So like it or not, there are lots of opportunities at running game. And I fully admit I have missed some monsters over the years with a shotgun slug! Haha!

I think I am looking to scope this rifle. However, I am comfortable with and have considered using a red dot as well. Also, I will strip the open sights off of this rifle and use a backup rifle should the unlikely optics failure occur. So special considerations of clearing a open sights do not apply.

I am curious if any of you have additional thoughts or updated suggestions / recommendations on your personal setups for this type of rifle and usage.

Just as a matter of preference, trusted brands in my safe are Leupold, Swarovski, Zeiss, Aimpoint (Micro T1 & a PRO in use now), and Trijicon (RMR).

Lastly, if it is not too much trouble for you, would you be kind enough to share a photo of your rifle with the forum? Any details on mounts/rings used would be very helpful as well.

Thank you for your time!

All the best,


-Kenati


P.S. Please PM me if you'd rather text me a photo... I hate to post my cell number on the internet due to spammers. I would be happy to post any photos here for future reference for others as well.

Given your hunting conditions I would think a Leupold 2.5 compact would be a good choice. I have one for my GBL but it's not currently on my rifle. I have XS peep sights on it also.

Why would you want to remove the iron sights. It's not like they would be in the way with pretty much any reasonable scope setup?

I have a leupold 2x7x33 on my 1895 marlin in 45 70 and my 308 marlin express. The things I like about them are they give great visibility at dawn and dusk, they are small enough that they don't disturb the balance of the rifle and the optics are good enough I see the target better with a leupold at 3x than I do with a bushnell 3200 elite at 5x.

Thank you both for your responses.

I looked through the many options with Leupold and compared some specs on eye-relief and field of view. They really have quite a wide variety.

I have 3 of their Ultimateslam scopes with the illuminated circle dot as well as two other tactical scopes and one other custom shop scope with illuminated circle dots as well. I find my eye has grown quite accustomed to them and I tend to shoot them well, especially at moving targets.

Below are some of the scopes, specs, and reticles I looked at. Hopefully I won't have any trouble finding a very LOW mounting system, which I know next to nothing about at this point on a Marlin 1895. I really hate to raise my cheek off the stock much, if any at all possible. (Which is one reason I would remove the iron sights if necessary) I never understood how in the hell those guys shoot lever guns with those giant rings that have openings for iron sights underneath. But I digress…

I’ll start with the classic 2.5X scout scope (duplex reticle only option) which has the greatest eye-relief of them all by far. This is followed by the VX-R 1.5x33mm which has intermediate eye relief but with an illuminated duplex. The rest are pretty much standard Leupold eye-relief scopes with various circle reticles.

I have the Leupold 1.25-4 on another rifle - a Remington model 673 350 RM. It's a great scope but at least in my opinion it would overwhelm a Marlin 1895. That's one of the reasons for the 2.5 compact. It's small, light, has great eye relief and doesn't take away from the handling of the rifle. I mount it just ahead of the rear peep sight on a XS rail mount. I wish I had a picture of it on the rifle to show you.

I use the smaller peep sight they supply but even then it's still a fairly large opening. This doesn't seem to matter because I can shoot a group at 100 yds not much larger than the scope can. It's primarily set up for black bear hunting over bait so the distances are fairly short anyway. With 405 grain Woodleighs loaded to about 2000fps it really whacks them.

Got one of these on my Marlin 1895

http://www.academy.com/shop/pd...-1-4-x-20-riflescope

You can normally find them for $179 + free shipping if you search around the web.

I believe Phil Shoemaker has a 2.5 Leupold compact on his 458. It may be longer, but Leupold still sells the 3X fixed power scope through their custom shop. It is super tough, as well. I would go with the 2.5x compact. Simplicity Rules!

I can toss a rock as far as a 45-70 will shoot, so I always used the old 3X Leupold, its lean and clear and long enough to set it for your LOP. I like the 2.5X compact on the real kickers but on a .45-70 with a 3X I have a larger field of view, and I just happen to really like that scope..I also have a 2.5X Leupold Alaskan 7/8" tube that looks good on any gun and unlike the Lyman Alaskan the Leupold has a centered retical!!

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I have a buddy with a 2.5X that I'm going to try out on his lever gun.

Is this the XS mount everyone is referring to?

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...rlin-444p-1895-matte

I have been trying to do a little more research on rails. I'm pretty confident I can find some low rings that will give me minimal clearance, but I don't have any experience with rails on a lever gun. I was hoping the Talley one-piece ringmounts would work, but I don't think they will for a scout scope.

Does anyone have a photo of the shorter XS rail mounted on a Marlin 1895? I dont want to have to use the long ass rail like in the scond picture below if I don't have too. If forced to use the latter option, I would have to cut off the excess material. It looks ridiculous.

Thanks in advance!

If you use the short rail...it is a "scout mount" and you will need a scope with a long eye relief...a lot longer than a 2.5x Leupold or any scope not made for a Scout style setup.

I don't like scout mounted scopes because you don't have much of a field of view when looking through them.

I went with this mount for my 1895.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/eg...ount-2310-0-moa.html


Previously I had a .450 Marlin with a scout mount... My Ruger Scout rifle has the looong XS rail like the last photo you posted and it is interfering with the objective end of the scope I wanted to put on it.

I would give serious consideration to a reflex sight, they are light, & very fast

My Marlin Guide Gun has the short XS rail with a Leupold 2.5x Scout scope mounted in Warne QD rings. I also have a WWG rear sight and XS front sight because I occasionally feel like shooting irons. An Aimpoint H1 would probably work as well but cost way more money and sometimes that bit of magnification comes in handy.



With the Scout scope you shoot with both eyes open and really all your brain sees is a hovering circle of 2.5x magnified target with a cross hair where the bullet will go and all the area outside the scope. Basically unlimited field of view. I've taken two deer with this rifle in our WV woods and both were moving when I shot. IMHO Scout scopes need to be of relatively low power for this both eyes open concept to work and I don't see a need for the variable Scouts. Your mileage may vary by the way you use your rifle.

I purchased the short rail before they offered the longer rail. If you think you might want to put a conventional scope on the rifle the long rail gives you more options.

I can't see any reasoning behind a rail mount especially with the 3X Leupold that is a long scope and it works fine with the Marlin and actually I like those exceptionally low Weavers as you can take the scope off and see the iron sights clearly as the base does not interfere as most bases do...BTW if you set the attachment screws laterally or vertically sight the gun in then when you remove the scope for using your irons and return it to the gun, It will return to zero as well as any scope mount combo if you just return the screws to the same position, vertically or laterally, your choice.

My first year (1972) Marlin 1895, wears a period (for the rifle) "El Paso" Weaver K4 Scope on Leupold/Redfield base and "ultra low" rings.

I actually bought a post-64 Winchester '94 to obtain this scope, granted the '94 was only priced at $129 at my favorite local "toy store".

I had actually considered mounting an Aimpoint 2000 model red dot sight on the Marlin as I have one "loose", in addition to the one "scout mounted on my Rem870's Hastings Rifled slug barrel and another on the M1 Carbine that Leans against the wall between my bed and bedside table.... but I couldn't talk myself into red dotting a 45-70...

The short rail will give you:

the ability to mount a scout scope forward of the receiver

the option of using a quickly detachable scout scope while having a peep sight already mounted and zeroed for when the scope is detached

Remember, a scout scope will move the balancing point of the rifle much farther forward.

The long rail will:

allow you to mount either a scout scope or a standard eye relief scope

provide additional range of placement fore/aft for a scope

also allow the use of a peep sight by having one mounted at the rear of the rail, like the XS sight system below or by attaching a peep sight like the EAW peep upon removal of a quick release scope.

XS sight system


EAW removable peep


If you use standard, inexpensive one-piece or two-piece Weaver style bases you can still mount your scope with lever rings and use an EAW or similar peep sight when the scope is detached.

Another option is to use Talley bases and lever rings along with a Talley peep sight. When the scope is detached the peep sight attaches to the rear Talley base.

Talley peep sight


There is nothing wrong with using a standard base or pair of bases made for mounting a scope on the Marlin lever rifle and just using it scoped. In reality, a peep won't offer anything over a scope that can go down to 1x, 1.25x, or 1.5x. Many people even use 1x scopes with both eyes open. Metallic sights can serve as backup sights in case your scope breaks but think about how often that has happened to you.

I just mounted a scope on my Marlin 1895 and decided to use the Talley detachable ring system with a Talley peep. My scope is a Docter 6x42mm. I anticipate needing the extra magnification and all the light the 42mm objective will gather for fall hunting in the hills. But 6x is too high a magnification for the deep woods. When things are dark and close I'll use the peep.

I have a 1.5-4 x20 on my .45-70. It's a Bushnell but I can't remember which model. It works just fine. I wouldn't bother with a top magnification higher than 4x, because you aren't going to shoot far enough to need it.

ive got a vx1 1x4 hog hunter leupold sent me to replace a redfield red dot that didn't work and that they didn't make anymore. Pretty impressive for what they cost. Its sits on my 356 big bore

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I can toss a rock as far as a 45-70 will shoot, so I always used the old 3X Leupold, its lean and clear and long enough to set it for your LOP. I like the 2.5X compact on the real kickers but on a .45-70 with a 3X I have a larger field of view, and I just happen to really like that scope..I also have a 2.5X Leupold Alaskan 7/8" tube that looks good on any gun and unlike the Lyman Alaskan the Leupold has a centered retical!!

That 3x having a larger field of view than the 2.5x is counter-intuitive, Ray. Does the 3x have a bigger ocular or shorter eye relief?

So that Leupold Alaskan was the techno-retro version they brought out at the turn of this century? If they had done it with the original reticle, I'd be looking for one myself

I don't think much of the EAW peep sight, Grenadier. That would have more tunnel vision than my Nikon scope.

My Marlin 1895 is set up very similar to the one Rick R shows in his post. I have the standard 1895 and I used the short XS rail, XS sights and the Leupold 2.5x scout scope in Warne QD mounts. My Marlin has been like that since XS came out with that set up. Before that I had a regular Leupold 4x scope on it. I much prefer the scout set up.

Safe shooting............Larry

I took me six months to get around to finding the right scope and mount combination, but I am pleased with the way it turned out.

(I had some trouble with those damn plug screws in the receiver and had to re-drill and tap them. Total bullshit for a new rifle and apparently a common problem)

As for the scope, I had narrowed it down to the following:

1) Leupold FX-II Ultralight Rifle Scope 2.5X 20mm (49896)
2) Leupold FX-II Scout Rifle Scope 2.5x 28mm Intermediate Eye Relief (58810)

I decided on option one due to the eye relief and field of view.


As for rings and mounts, I had a big box of parts to try various combinations (Talley, Nikon, Burris, Leupold, Weaver, etc. rings and mounts.

The Leupold standard base (49987) and Super Low rings (49896) turned out to be the best and lowest possible combination. Pretty much razor thin clearance between scope tube and top of base.


Marlin 1895GSBL in 45-70 & Leupold FX-II Ultralight Rifle Scope 2.5X 20mm

Sometimes we tend to overthink, especially those without actual field experience..The KISS principle really comes in place here with a lever action 45-70.

A 2.5X to 3X fixed Leupold or Weaver fits the bill for a 200 yard rifle give or take a 100 yards...this is no place for a large scope or even a variable power scope IMO...

No gimmicky scopes,red dots or battery powered sights, et. al...A set of clean TAlley mounts and the QD Talley peep as pictured above with a NECG square gold faced .500 high post front sight filed to zero..QD Talley low rings..You just can't do any better than this, no way, no how..fast, efficient, and adds to your accuracy with both scope and irons. I use the same combo on my pre 64 fwt. mod. 70 30-06 on elk, Mule deer and whitetail..and a couple of DG rifles.

Williams 5D!

Not to hijack this thread. I have a Marlin 45/70 SDT 16 1/4" barrel. I have been thinking of the mods above for awhile now.
Do you think it would hurt it's value???
Marlin only made 501.

Don't worry about the highjacking. I just wanted to put this information out there in case anyone was wanting to do something similar.

I had a phenomenal out-of-state hunt with this rifle recently. It is a traditional shotgun-only state that recently relaxed the rules to allow 45-70 Govt.

Big mistake... I smoked 'em! We are legally allowed to "party hunt" and I took full advantage of that and did a fair share of the killing. Seven deer in two days to be exact. 5 running and 2 standing. Closest was 15 yards the furthest was 120 yards.

Overall, I couldn't be more pleased with the way the gun turned out.

Am I disappointed in the shitty screws and blind hole machining on the receiver for the scope mounting screws that required re-drilling and tapping? Hell yes! Inexcusable.

Is the trigger on the rifle the worst of ANY of the rifles in my entire battery? YES. But that will be fixed in the off-season hopefully after a trip to Montana so Lew Bonitz can work his magic on her. (www.GrizzlyCustom.com)

Merry Christmas to all!

Kenati, the way you have your Marlin set up is just pure business. Very fine decisions you made putting it together. Congratulations -- and merry Christmas.

SAmbarman,
The 2.5 and 3X are the same in all respect other than the half power of the 3X.

The "leupold Alaskan" made for about a year is a duplicate of the old Lyman Alaskan for all practicle purposes, but the Leupold has the centered crosshairs and does not require a mount with adjustments..Its a great scope but a used one these day fetches about $400 to $500..The Leupold can be had in a number of cross hairs..but the standard medium cross hair is pretty hard to beat and that's what it came with.

I agree with Bill, the only thing I would change is I would use a set of my old steel redfields theat have top screws, two in the rear ring and one in the front ring..They are really pretty..some were even color case hardened..I buy them up at every gun show I go to..Getting hard to find.

I have the same set up except with Buehlers on my old 1895- great timber elk rifle. I have a pair of those old Redfields laying around somewhere as well. If you want them Ray let me know- I am sure we can work a trade for something.

I have one of the XS rails with a Leupold scout scope on mine. That thing recoils so fast and hard I want as much eye relief as possible.