Fols,

shoy my 50-110 for the first time weekend gone and my load was 75 gr of AR2208 (Varget) in starline case behind a woodleigh bullet filed back to 407gr, and a fed 215m primer

I do not own a chrono but a fellow 50-110 Aussie shooter does and he states ït's mild.

I am getting a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel and it falls back into the action and wonder is it due to the load being to light.

I have no bases for another powder to use, I have thought of AR2207 (similar to RE-7 & IMR 4198) but am unsure if this will be to quick.

Thanks PC.

I'm shooting IMR 4198 in my 50/110 double and find it super accurate (1 1/2" with 4 shots). ~Arctic~

PC

That powder seems to be the right one to use, but are you tamping the load down with some foam or dacron? It would seem to me that if you're doing light loads, at least compress the powder a bit and have it sit down close to the bottom of the case so the primer has a chance to ignite it all. Also, are you crimping the rounds enough?

Paul, I have no unburnt powder in my 50-110, but I have never fired anything lighter than 450gr with Varget. I don't have my notes handy, but I'm guessing 75gr would be in the 1600fps range.

H4895 is another good one to try, and I'd bet it'll work better for the lighter bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Al:
Paul, I have no unburnt powder in my 50-110, but I have never fired anything lighter than 450gr with Varget. I don't have my notes handy, but I'm guessing 75gr would be in the 1600fps range.

H4895 is another good one to try, and I'd bet it'll work better for the lighter bullets.

H4895 is very hard to get here Al,

I am using a full crimp but no dacron, I have never used dacron before.

Anyone have 50-10 loads with a light bullet for any of the RE stuff ??

Thanks for the hlep thus far.

Artic what powder charge are you using ??

In the straight cases of any vintage or any degree of umph H4198 is my friend

PC,
Same happens to me in the 45/70 with cast loads that are light. You get straw-coloured unburnt granules. Why not start inching the load upwards, or try a hotter primer? I'd avoid fillers of any kind. H4895 is AR2206H and is available now. On the faster side maybe try AR2206 or the faster AR2207, AR2219 or BM2 might be a go as well, but you'll need to experiment. I would have put these powders before AR2208 in a straight case application.
Cheers...
Con

Con,

I am very keen to try 2206 but where does one start in the 50-110 with 2206 no one has any data for it !!

I load varget in my friends 45-70 they are
trapdoor loads and he gets unburnt powder after
every shot

Powder zombies are the result of too low a pressure. I believe you have two solutions:

(1) Increase the charge and/or increase the weight of the bullet.

(2) Use a faster powder. H335, H4895, Benchmark, H322 and H4198 are faster. Reloader 7 is also much faster than Varget.

PC
Can you seat the bullet out far enough, and still function through the action, to engage the rifling? The idea being that the greater resistance to getting the bullet moving, leads to more complete powder burn.
Another suggestion, to be tried separately or in conjunction, is to crimp the bejesus out of the bullet. Again increasing resistance.
Rather then use dacron to hold the powder against the primer, try toilet tissue, facial tissue, 2 by 2 square and tamp the tissue down against the powder. The tissue burns up in the barrel and maybe in the case.
Jim

Arky Pete thanks for that aftert hese 17 are shot up I might do that for the next lot if it does not harm the barrel.

PC
Don't know where I learned of this trick, seating out to touch the lands. I've used it on a 25-06, 243 to good effect. I smoke the bullet with a candle, could use a Magic Marker also to find the proper seating depth.
The toilet tissue, facial tissue I used with 255 grain over sized pistol bullets in my 45-70. I used a highly polished non ferous metal rod to tamp the paper down on the powder and I've used a very smooth wooden dowel.
Jim

PC: stay away from fillers, it is the wrong solution and you might ring your barrel.

Your problem isn't incomplete ignition. Your problem is too low a pressure for a slow powder.

Frankly, you are using the wrong powder for the velocity/weight range you are shooting. You need a faster powder.

A hard crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp will help some - if you could get a 50cal FCD.

Stop using Varget and use that RE7-equivalent you have on hand. Pull down what you've got and do it right.

Thanks DLA, I might have to do that.

PC -

DLA has it right... or at least, a decade ago we went down the same road, had the same problems (zombies), and came to to same conclusion: if you want full house loads, use full house powders; if you want CAS (900-1300fps) loads, then use light loads of pistol or shotgun powders (there's a large collection of said on our website - url below, look under levergun studies/data); and if you want in-between loads, then good luck... but the 4198 class powders might be the way to go.

do shoot straight,
greg
http://www.gmdr.com

ps. we're currently taking data for both the 450 alaskan and 458 lott - so we understand the big empty case problem.

dla - very glad to see you surfaced somewhere (we'd been away busy, came back to marlinowners, and no dla).

Looks like more powder is the go or next step 2206. There are a lot of powders between 2206 and 2207 and I think(I maybe wrong of course) that 2207 would be a bit quick for the 50-110.

Didn't notice the powder zombies, although they may have been there when I used 75grns. As I'm at 82grns with my loads I think you could try more powder.
82grns is giving an avg of 2078fps with the 440grn Woodleighs filed back to 402grns. Noticed that there wasn't much difference in felt recoil with muzzle brake on or off.

I intend to keep loading up with this load, as powder is not yet compressed.

quote:

I load varget in my friends 45-70 they are

Varget is too slow for your combo. You didn't metion what action your 50-100 is built on. If it happens to be something strong I would at least move to 4198 or AA2015. If it is really strong (such as Win Highwall) try 4227 or SR 4759.
You need to jack up the bullet weight or the burning rate of the powder to get it to burn cleaner.

I now have some 500 gr woodleigh bullets so the Varget should work well with those !!