Bad News for a Western Outfitter

17 October 2002, 08:45

NM man indicted for planning to hunt elk from plane

Last Update: 10/01/2002 13:14:16
(Phoenix-AP) -- A New Mexico man is among two that have been indicted in Phoenix on federal charges of using or conspiring to use aircraft to hunt elk.

The indictment names big game outfitter George Taulman of Taos and one of his employees, David Holton the Third of Lake Montezuma, Arizona. Taulman's company, United States Outfitters, also is named in the indictment.

The indictment also seeks forfeiture of a company-owned airplane.

The US Attorney's Office in Phoenix said the indictments stem from a two-year-old investigation that began in 1998. The probe focused on several big game guides based in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah and so far has led to the convictions of a dozen people.

http://www.kobtv.com/archive/2002/october/01/elk_indictment.htm

22 October 2002, 01:36

<don>

Isn't this the guide that Bill Jordans realtree monster bulls videos uses. If so that is a shame. Innocent until proven guilty.

22 October 2002, 08:30

<RENRAF>

I would wait and see what the investigation turns up. Was he going to be shooting from the plane? Or was he going to use it as a tool for scouting?

22 October 2002, 10:26

<mikeh416Rigby>

quote:
Originally posted by don:
Isn't this the guide that Bill Jordans realtree monster bulls videos uses. If so that is a shame. Innocent until proven guilty.

One and the same.

22 October 2002, 11:06

redial

Funny how it's a federal case rather than several local cases, assuming similar charges are pending in multiple jurisdictions. Hmm. These are the same feds that won't prosecute felons in possession of firearms (federal law) but will happily prosecute what should be local cases. WTF? Interstate Commerce Clause, my ass.

If I'm interpreting law incorrectly, someone please correct me.

Redial

22 October 2002, 12:40

jim81147

Is it possible that its federal because it took place over an Indian reservation? Much of NM is Indian land.

22 October 2002, 13:03

Kensco

I'm not sure. I think it may be Federal because it happened across multiple state lines.

I heard this in 2000 while elk hunting with an outfitter out of Utah who used Arizona guides. They said U.S. Outfitters was spotting elk from the air and using radios to home their hunters in on them.

I hope they throw the book at him if he's found guilty. I'm tired of guys just making money off this industry and not feeling any responsibility to protect it, or deal within it ethically.

When I lived in Odessa, Texas years ago the owner of the best sporting goods store in town got some jail time for flying hunters into the Big Bend area by helicopter and dropping them in on black bear. Some were on the Mexico side of the border.

Another gun shop owner had to run his business under his wife's FFL because he'd lost his selling guns at the border to smugglers from Mexico. He also lost his day job for the same reason. He was using his company vehicle to haul them.

We would be a lot better off if we could get the trash out of this industry before they give us all a black eye.

I don't have any sympathy for them.

26 October 2002, 08:30

Bill C

I just returned from an elk hunt in area 15B in NM, close to where USO has a camp. They have a pretty bad reputation in the Reserve and surrounding area, and the arrest of the owner was the talk of the town. From what the locals said, an agent posed as a hunter and this is how they were caught.

My guide had a run-in with two of their guides on separate occasions a bit ago. The USO guides said that he was not allowed to hunt the same area that they were in, as USO had the rights to it. It was Federal land, and open to anybody (with a tag). When the owner was approached it was unclear if this was "company policy" and/or if the guides were actually aware that it was open land.

I guess when an outfitter gets as big as USO, it becomes a game of numbers. Same things happens in Alaska. Too bad.

26 October 2002, 09:51

Kensco

Everyone in New Mexico likes to throw a bluff on you. I grew up there. The big deal when I was young was BLM land. The ranchers that held grazing rights used to love driving up to you all pissed off and try to run you off "their land" if they caught you hunting.

I always checked my maps first and reminded them whose land it really was. I told one guy that was particularly vocal about it that if he wanted he could get his cows off my land.

That was always the great thing about New Mexico. There was a lot of good Federal land to hunt, if you just knew where it was. Texas is just the opposite. I stopped along the highway shortly after moving there and fired at a buzzard. In about thirty seconds I had a rancher pull in behind me telling me to move on. I knew then I wasn't at home anymore.

26 October 2002, 14:39

<M70>

I've hunted with George Taulman, since before he was USO, and he actually did the guiding. Recently got back from a Trophy Elk Hunt, in Arizona, (unit 5B)with USO. Something tells me that he is now in this game only for the money. . . .And, yes, I have heard (from several of his guides) that he does use aircraft for scouting, along with electronics for hunter guidance.

I'll gather up all of my notes and give all of you a history of USO and its hunts. Of which I have been guided by them on over a dozen "trophy" hunts over the years.

Good hunting,
Dale (M70)