(PRICE REDUCED again)MOKORE SAFARIS HAS A LION ON OFFER FOR '12 ON THE SAVE (SOLD)

11 November 2011, 22:46

MARK H. YOUNG

NOTE DATE ON PIC

Most of you know the quality of lions being taken on the Save Conservancy and the reputation of Mokore Safaris for providing high quality safari expereiences. They have been allowed (1) lion on the Conservancy for '12 and I'D be very surprised if if the hunter that buys this lion safari does not kill a toad. The above pix are of the lion they killed this year.

PRICING:

1X1 18 was 21 DAYS $2,250 was $2,500 PER DAY

EXTRAS:

TROPHY FEES
MARS $10 PER DAY PER PERSON
DIP/PACK DEPENDNET ON NUMBER OF ANIMALS TAKEN
ZIM TAX ON DAILY FEES AND TROPHY FEES
HOTELS BEFORE OR AFTER SAFARI AS NECESSARY
GRATUITIES AT CLIENTS DISCRETION
INTERNATIONAL AIRFARE AND TROPHY SHIPPING

If you have questions please contact me anytime.

TROPHY FEES

Lion 10000
Porcupine 200
Hippo 4000
Antbear 200
Elephant Cow Tuskless 3750
Leopard 4000
Caracal 200
Sable 4000
Serval 200
Crocodile 4000
Civet 200
Nyala 3000
Impala males 250
Buffalo 3000
Impala females/baits 100
Waterbuck 2000
Duiker 200
Eland 1500
Grysbok 200
Buffalo Cow 1500
Jackal 200
Giraffe 1500
Genet 150
Kudu 1500
Baboon 50
Zebra 850
Monkey 50
Wildebeest 750
Wildcat 50
Bushbuck (Southern) 750
Mongoose 50
Klipspringer 600
Guinea Fowl & Francolin 5
Hyeana 450
Birds Miscellaneous 5
Warthog 400

12 November 2011, 17:34

lde

$2500/day?
Shoulda gone to PH school....

12 November 2011, 17:41

David Hulme

Make that landowner school

12 November 2011, 20:52

SBT

02 December 2011, 23:26

MARK H. YOUNG

This lion is still available.

03 December 2011, 00:47

fairgame

Come on Mark make it interesting. $900 a day and a $30,000 trophy fee.

03 December 2011, 02:11

Use Enough Gun

03 December 2011, 02:30

safari-lawyer

Those Auburn men are hell on lion.

I've seen where that lion was shot, a unique setup to say the least.

03 December 2011, 22:40

MARK H. YOUNG

Andrew and Vaughan,

I have no say in the price and Gary Duckworth tells me I don't even get commission on the whole daily rate if I can sell it. Things are tough all over out there. I do think someone will get a very nice lion on that hunt though and when you start comparing prices to other areas producing quality lion that price really is not that outrageous.

Mark

04 December 2011, 02:16

505 gibbs

$62500 + baits ($4k?) + taxes + transfers + tips = $75k-$80k lion hunt?

I would say this is just as expensive as about anywhere else. No doubt there are people out there that can afford it, and the Save is a great place to go, but too rich for my blood. Good luck to whoever ends up buying it.

04 December 2011, 15:10

BulldogMaster

quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
+1

+2 at least there would be some incentive for the PH's to get you on a lion and not send you home empty and sell it again as a late season discounted hunt.

03 March 2012, 19:41

MARK H. YOUNG

Still available.

03 March 2012, 21:14

We Are Sparta!

Not suprised at that price.
Go with reduced day rate and higher trophy fee and you would sell this.

I prefer to see the safari outfit with a little more skin in the game that a fat $2250 per day daily rate. They make their $$$ regardless of client success.

Yes, I know the all world Duckworth's will "make every effort" to get the client on a good lion, but they need to man up and get in with the client on this.

A garaunteed payday for them and a chance to resell the lion to the next guy if no good on client #1. Let them commit to $750 per day, plains game rate, and then tack on a big pay off if the client shoots Mr. Simba.

03 March 2012, 22:50

MARK H. YOUNG

Sparta,

Great idea and Fairgame offers something like what you have proposed in the Kafue but I'm afraid its not at $750 per day. I'd be happy to send you the details if you'd like. In the meantime if anyone wants to hunt lion this year with the Duckworths on the Save the above is the current price.

Mark

04 March 2012, 02:38

RichP470

A fair price would be something like a daily rate similar to a buff/plains game hunt where the outfitters profitable, you are going to get to hunt buff and there is a shared upside and little downside for both parties. If no lion is taken the client is not out the high daily rate and the outfitter can resell the tag. Hell I would even pay 5k over the normal fee so the outfitter would have upside.

The good news if you are hunting with the Duckworths, they are proven hunters compared to someone unproven like Terry Anders next door on Savuli who profited from multiple lion hunts without producing results for his clients.

04 March 2012, 10:40

We Are Sparta!

Rich,
You get what I am saying.

I fully understand and know the Duckworth's reputation. However, they cannot commit to being able to put you or me on a lion. My point is, why should the hunter endure the risk of a $2250 per day daily rate when the outfitter can make his money on $1000 per day or whatever that local market is for a plains game hunt. You are hunting plains game for bait anyway.

I think if the area was truly as good as advertised, then the outfitter would put "skin in the game". I am with you, I would be glad to pay a higher trophy fee for success knowing that the outfitter stands to make more money selling one lion than an outfitter selling 2 or 3 unsuccessful lions and making a really big pay day.

Oh well....

04 March 2012, 10:41

Ing. S. Bader

quote:
$62500 + baits ($4k?) + taxes + transfers + tips = $75k-$80k lion hunt?

Sorry, but that price is mutch to high...

04 March 2012, 12:00

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by We Are Sparta!:
Rich,
You get what I am saying.

I fully understand and know the Duckworth's reputation. However, they cannot commit to being able to put you or me on a lion. My point is, why should the hunter endure the risk of a $2250 per day daily rate when the outfitter can make his money on $1000 per day or whatever that local market is for a plains game hunt. You are hunting plains game for bait anyway.

I think if the area was truly as good as advertised, then the outfitter would put "skin in the game". I am with you, I would be glad to pay a higher trophy fee for success knowing that the outfitter stands to make more money selling one lion than an outfitter selling 2 or 3 unsuccessful lions and making a really big pay day.

Oh well....

The "Skin in the Game" you suggest places substantial risk upon the proprietor that they may deem un necessary. For a plainsgame hunt that has the potential for a sudden single bullet trophy fee of $30k or whatever, a client may well get cold feet just prior to the trigger pull. We can hear the client excuses. "You sure about his mane/ age/ the light/ angle?" Gawd that sounds like an aweful amount of money, mebbe I'll just keep hunting all this plainsgame and take his picture instead!

I'm a proprietor myself and my preference is to get the customer as committed as I can as early in the game as I can in part by collecting as big a wad o cash from them in advance. I wouldn't want to predicate my professional survival on a customer sending me a check after his return to the nation of their origin thats nowhere close to mine. Especially here in Dillingham or in the even smaller 'burg of AR, if the proprietor doesn't fulfill their end of the obligation the business is down the tubes overnight. Blairworldwide being an example. Llamapacker on the other hand,...........

04 March 2012, 13:23

We Are Sparta!

Scott,
You just wrote the exact scenary that we are discussing - you want to get a "big a wad o cash from them in advance". That is the problem. When you "get your wad o cash", the outfitter has zero incentive to put you on the quarry.

In African hunts, it is very easy to place that "wad o cash" with the agent to disperse when the hunt is concluded. I have done this wihtout a single problem. If the agent is truly an agent, this is not an issue.

If the customer is unsuccesful, guess what? The agent gets to resell the hunt for a second kick at the can and he is out nothing.

I fail to see how this is "unnecessary risk" on the operator. All of the risk when things are paid all up front in the form of bloated daily rates is on the customer. I say, share the risk. The operator gets paid a reduced rate if he does not or cannot deliver. The customer pays for performance.

If you are an Alaskan guide, you usually do not charge a "trophy fee". You get your daily rate and that is it.

How about charging 1/2 your daily rate and get a trophy fee that brings the total money you can earn up by 20%? In other words, make up the balance with a trophy fee. For instance, you may guide for Dall Sheep. Your desired total earnings are $12000 for a 10 day hunt. I say, charge me $500 per day or $5000 and I pay you an additional $9000 when the sheep is down. The agent holds the cash and disperses at the end of the successful hunt. You get more money and the client has a committed guide after a sheep.

When a client comes to Alaska it is usually a single species hunt, so you win and the client wins as you are "more" committed to putting him game.

MARK - sorry to hijack your thread. I hope you sell the hunt as the Duckworths are good guys and a hunter should get a lion with them.

04 March 2012, 20:25

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by We Are Sparta!:
Scott,
You just wrote the exact scenary that we are discussing - you want to get a "big a wad o cash from them in advance". That is the problem. When you "get your wad o cash", the outfitter has zero incentive to put you on the quarry.

In African hunts, it is very easy to place that "wad o cash" with the agent to disperse when the hunt is concluded. I have done this wihtout a single problem. If the agent is truly an agent, this is not an issue.

If the customer is unsuccesful, guess what? The agent gets to resell the hunt for a second kick at the can and he is out nothing.

I fail to see how this is "unnecessary risk" on the operator. All of the risk when things are paid all up front in the form of bloated daily rates is on the customer. I say, share the risk. The operator gets paid a reduced rate if he does not or cannot deliver. The customer pays for performance.

If you are an Alaskan guide, you usually do not charge a "trophy fee". You get your daily rate and that is it.

How about charging 1/2 your daily rate and get a trophy fee that brings the total money you can earn up by 20%? In other words, make up the balance with a trophy fee. For instance, you may guide for Dall Sheep. Your desired total earnings are $12000 for a 10 day hunt. I say, charge me $500 per day or $5000 and I pay you an additional $9000 when the sheep is down. The agent holds the cash and disperses at the end of the successful hunt. You get more money and the client has a committed guide after a sheep.

When a client comes to Alaska it is usually a single species hunt, so you win and the client wins as you are "more" committed to putting him game.

MARK - sorry to hijack your thread. I hope you sell the hunt as the Duckworths are good guys and a hunter should get a lion with them.

The un necessary risk is un necessary if a proprietor can sell the hunt with the usual payments schedule instead of the new proposed scheme and a risk in that the proprietor is waiting for payment from a client that has left the country.

I understand your reasoning, I'm just pointing out that your mode may give any proprietor some serious heartburn. This proprietor wouldn't want a transaction 99.99% complete, the client way more than out of sight and me waiting and praying the client takes a moment to write a hefty check. No I'm not a guide, don't want to be and don't have anything to do with them or their industry.

04 March 2012, 20:29

jeff h

I am all about getting a deal. Out of the 13 safaris I have been on only paid full price for about 5 of them. That being said. ITS LION HUNTING AND IT AIN'T CHEAP.
Be patient, if the date gets closer the price will go down if it's not sold. i have won some of these and lost some. Friend of mine once told me never book before July 1st. if you want a deal.
Good luck

04 March 2012, 20:53

safari-lawyer

How many of you commentators have made an offer on this hunt based on a lower day rate and an exaggerated trophy fee as suggested in the previous posts?

I bet the answer is none.

It's lion hunting, it ain't cheap, and this is the going rate in this part of the world. The Duckworths are good folk and they will sell this hunt and get the hunter a top notch lion. If I were not hunting lion next door in June, I would have already bought this hunt.

Finally, you cannot overlook that this is a three week hunt with a variety of major species available for trophy fees.

Expensive? Yes. Overpriced? No.

04 March 2012, 22:05

RichP470

Will you are absolutely correct, it is the going rate so you put up or shut up or try to work out a deal. After 2 unfruitful lion hunts, I like the idea of a lower daily and a higher trophy. My Tanzanian hunt last year was set up this way, but still not cheap. I paid the daily rates of a leopard hunt with the difference paid if I was successful taking a lion. I was able to take some great plains game animals, buy an additional license and shoot 5 buff, so it wasn't a bad experience, but I struck out on my priority animal.

With that said, Mokores lion hunt is less than I am paying on Bubye in 13.

08 March 2012, 01:28

JCS271

I come to this forum to "shop" for hunting opportunities. I look at the animals available, analyze the costs, then make my decision. Neither I nor anyone else come here to read the petty nonsense of people whining about pricing, marketing strategies or their personal views on what the outfitter "ought to do".

If you want to post your personal thoughts and opinions, START A NEW POST SOMEWHERE ELSE!

25 March 2012, 01:51

MARK H. YOUNG

Total price reduced again.

25 March 2012, 12:24

Ing. S. Bader

quote:
Total price reduced again.

I had knowed that.

And again:
Sorry, it is to expensive.
There are better offer, exspecialy here on AR.

25 March 2012, 18:35

MikeBurke

quote:
Originally posted by Ing. S. Bader:
quote:
Total price reduced again.

I had knowed that.

And again:
Sorry, it is to expensive.
There are better offer, exspecialy here on AR.

This has turned in to a crappy thread for a couple of good guys. I have hunted with Mokore booked through Mark and you can not ask for a better experience.

So Ing, since your post is off topic I feel Heym is very overpriced and there are much better rifles for less money especially on AR.

Sorry Mark (and Tony) some of this crap is just plain ridiculous.

25 March 2012, 23:49

A.Dahlgren

quote:
Originally posted by Ing. S. Bader:
quote:
Total price reduced again.

I had knowed that.

And again:
Sorry, it is to expensive.
There are better offer, exspecialy here on AR.

Nice manners ! And yes Heym is overpriced !

I have booked with Mark and hunted the Save, great agent and great area + have never heard a bad thing about the Duckworths - you cant go wrong on this hunt.

26 March 2012, 00:26

MARK H. YOUNG

Guys,

Just for giggles let's assume that this lion hunt with Mokore is one of the top lion hunts in Zim as far as chances of success and trophy quality are concerned. I think I'll get some agreement on that one. Then lets compare the Mokore price to a couple of other comparable hunts.

Total daily fees and lion trophy fees:

Mokore $50,500
Pro Safaris on the Save $62,650
Matetsi $64,900

All 3 of these hunts in my opinion offer a better than average opportunity to kill a mature lion. It looks to me like Mokore's hunt is a bargain.

My point is that you can buy a less expensive hunt but will you be buying a comparable hunt? Probably not.

Mark

18 April 2012, 22:44

lb404

Mark, The real issue is that daily rates should reflect the potential success rate for the game. If I get a lion license and it is only available to me and can never be resold, there would be more honesty in the deal. As it is now, in Africa, one can be sold a big 4-5 hunt and never see 3 out of the 5 in shoot able heads, and the only one suffering loss is the hunter. Have been there done that and have no trophies. The standard excuse is the same "thats hunting". When I started hunting in africa, there was integrity. Not now every one sells stuff they cannot deliver and feels no remorse for it. But they still get their cut up front for sure. A dangerous game hunt where no dangerous game is taken is just a hunt at the cheapest rate. Outfitters and pro hunters dont feel they can trust a client to pay up after they get home and hunters no longer can expect reasonable success in acquiring the trophies they were looking for and contracted for. Wasn't that the main reason for hiring a pro in the first place? To take the uncertainty out of the equation. Now it seems to be more of a shake down. I just dont think there is any honor in the game anymore. My proof is this; how many hunters that pay for a lion hunt actually shoot a lion? One should see several shootable specimens when lion hunting and shoot the one that suites you. Same with buff and leopard. We have gotten so used to assuming all the risk for success that we forget that we are paying someone good wages to help us secure our trophies. Some pro hunters are getting close to doing it right. They offer an all inclusive fee and if the quarie is not shot, they refund the trophy fee. They still get the dangerous game daily rate. That is wrong. They should also refund all of the DG daily rate and charge a plains game rate or something close to that. That would be fair. Then those that have game dangerous or not, would be honest. This is the way I do business at home every day. I scam no one and no one can ever say they got less than they paid for.By law, I must even care for those that can't or wont pay. That is true honor!

18 April 2012, 23:45

A.Dahlgren

quote:
Originally posted by lb404:
Mark, The real issue is that daily rates should reflect the potential success rate for the game. If I get a lion license and it is only available to me and can never be resold, there would be more honesty in the deal. As it is now, in Africa, one can be sold a big 4-5 hunt and never see 3 out of the 5 in shoot able heads, and the only one suffering loss is the hunter. Have been there done that and have no trophies. The standard excuse is the same "thats hunting". When I started hunting in africa, there was integrity. Not now every one sells stuff they cannot deliver and feels no remorse for it. But they still get their cut up front for sure. A dangerous game hunt where no dangerous game is taken is just a hunt at the cheapest rate. Outfitters and pro hunters dont feel they can trust a client to pay up after they get home and hunters no longer can expect reasonable success in acquiring the trophies they were looking for and contracted for. Wasn't that the main reason for hiring a pro in the first place? To take the uncertainty out of the equation. Now it seems to be more of a shake down. I just dont think there is any honor in the game anymore. My proof is this; how many hunters that pay for a lion hunt actually shoot a lion? One should see several shootable specimens when lion hunting and shoot the one that suites you. Same with buff and leopard. We have gotten so used to assuming all the risk for success that we forget that we are paying someone good wages to help us secure our trophies. Some pro hunters are getting close to doing it right. They offer an all inclusive fee and if the quarie is not shot, they refund the trophy fee. They still get the dangerous game daily rate. That is wrong. They should also refund all of the DG daily rate and charge a plains game rate or something close to that. That would be fair. Then those that have game dangerous or not, would be honest. This is the way I do business at home every day. I scam no one and no one can ever say they got less than they paid for.By law, I must even care for those that can't or wont pay. That is true honor!

Idont want to sound like a smartass but I think you have missed the concept of hunting. There are no such thing as sure trophy when you are hunting a wild area. Sure you pay top dollar for HUNTING but not for your trophy...If you want to buy a lion or even a tiger go to south africa its a done deal in 1 day ! Your bad hunt with Rungwa was that only beucase you didnt take a lion ? I took my first leopard on day 54 !! Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose, as it should be IMO

19 April 2012, 01:43

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by lb404:
My proof is this; how many hunters that pay for a lion hunt actually shoot a lion? One should see several shootable specimens when lion hunting and shoot the one that suites you.

Sir, I can't speak for ALL lion hunts sold throughout Africa - but I can certainly speak for the one's I sell, and the one's I have hunted personally. I would be willing to bet in the past 10 yrs, I have personally sold as many lion hunts as any single agent in the business. My client success percentage is easily 80% plus, and my own success on lions is, 11 lions on 14 lion hunts - 85% successful!

Success on lion is never guaranteed, never! To assume simply because you buy a lion hunt, you should see several good males and choose the one you want - is simply to say one has not lion hunted very much. Even the best places/outfitters are not 100% successful, but too often I see guys buying "cheap" lion hunts in places where success is little more than a hope in the first place. I cringe at some of the lion hunts I see guys buying, but who am I to say anything, its there money. Buy a top quality hunt like the one offered here, and your odds of success are very high.

Like Will, I also have 2 lion hunts already booked for 2012, or I would have bought this hunt long ago. Mark posted a pic of a very good lion on Mokore, see above. I also have 2 pics of a different lion, an "excellent" lion, that is on Mokore right now too! Whom ever buys this hunt, WILL shoot a good lion, I'll go so far as to say, I guarantee it!!!

19 April 2012, 03:14

hunt99

Aaron, under my new math 11/14 would be 78.57% successful. It would need to be 12/14 to get 85%.

19 April 2012, 04:38

jdollar

19 April 2012, 04:50

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by hunt99:
Aaron, under my new math 11/14 would be 78.57% successful. It would need to be 12/14 to get 85%.

Hunt - That very well could be, I didn't do the math.

Regardless, I'll take it!

19 April 2012, 05:00

larryshores

Lion hunting is expensive, period, end of story. If you think this one is expensive, try prime areas in TZ.

I have not hunted Mokore. I have, however, hunted Sango. Mokore borders Sango. There are plenty of lions around there.

If I wasn't already going to Africa twice this year, I would take the hunt. This hunt is reasonable for a quality lion hunt.

19 April 2012, 05:55

LionHunter

Like Larry Shores, I simply cannot understand the total lack of understanding of Lion hunting evidenced by some posters. But this is the internet, so that doesn't stop some from running off at the mouth when they have no idea whatsoever what the hell they're talking about.

Mark Young and Aaron Nelson are both stand-up guys, yet both have been vilified here on AR for recent Lion hunting offers. Hey, here's a flash: NOT EVERYONE CAN HUNT LION. For a variety of reasons, not the least of which for many is the cost. I made sacrifices to hunt Lion, and I had to do it twice before I got mine.

19 April 2012, 17:24

Bwanamich

Personally, what I don't like about a low daily rate and a large Trophy fee on success is that it now gives the PH/Operator a huge incentive to ensure the client shoots a lion.......ANY LION..... to cash in. Fine for more common species but not for todays lion hunting IMHO.

19 April 2012, 18:53

505 gibbs

quote:
Personally, what I don't like about a low daily rate and a large Trophy fee on success is that it now gives the PH/Operator a huge incentive to ensure the client shoots a lion.......ANY LION..... to cash in. Fine for more common species but not for todays lion hunting IMHO.

So, would the reverse be true? A high daily rate and a low trophy fee would take away the incentive for the PH/Operator to ensure the client shoots a lion?

21 April 2012, 22:50

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Personally, what I don't like about a low daily rate and a large Trophy fee on success is that it now gives the PH/Operator a huge incentive to ensure the client shoots a lion.......ANY LION..... to cash in. Fine for more common species but not for todays lion hunting IMHO.

Quite the reverse.

I have a client who is coming out and knows what a big trophy male Lion looks like and will only take a 6 year male. Therefore there is no pressure for me to take a lesser specimen.