4457s and update with our experience

08 March 2019, 21:49

The wife and I going on Safari in Zim in June. We are overnighting in Joberg (new experience for me) this time so took all the rifles in to CBP office north of DFW to get newly dated forms to satisfy SAP.

Last time I went in 2017...got all kinds of questions and stuff about where I was going and stuff.

This time it was back to like days of yesteryear...quick check of serial numbers...sign/stamp the form and out of there in 10 mins.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

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No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

08 March 2019, 22:03

Hogbreath

Just did the same but in Albuquerque. They were very helpful and quick.
And when I went to Australia last year, all of my 4457's disappeared from my file folder that I always take with me. The Custom's office in Albuquerque went out of their way to find the copies they had for the proper firearms and fax them to the outfitter I was hunting with. Mostly good folks.

08 March 2019, 22:26

MARK H. YOUNG

Guys,

Your experience with US Customs is very much dependent on what agent you deal with. Don't expect any consistency.

Mark

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08 March 2019, 23:52

ledvm

They were slow at the office I went to so all 3 agents came out for the viewing. It was quite reminiscent of the late 90's when I first did one.

Anyway...I am sure Mark is right...but I thought it was at least a good sign.

09 March 2019, 00:12

squeezenhope

One thing you can count on, what one agent tells you, another will contradict. Mark is spot on.

09 March 2019, 01:52

drj

Just like airline check in agents. No matter how "experienced" they look and which airline you fly, many of them don't know jack s**t.

09 March 2019, 01:57

MARK H. YOUNG

Guys,

Ok! Here's a few real experiences with Customs and 4457's. One Customs Agent I knew would mail you a 4457 if you supplied the necessary info via e-mail. An agent in the local Customs office told my client that they needed to bring the guns to the office for inspection etc. another agent in the same office told another client that they didn't need to bring the guns just the SN, make, model and caliber. Agents on several occasions have wanted to know all about my upcoming hunt etc while another recently was going to give me a lecture about the "Cecil" debacle if I had given him an opening.

Coming back into the USA with guns is a complete crap shoot also with Customs. You just need to go with the flow.

Mark

09 March 2019, 05:50

ledvm

Well, anyway, glad my recent experience was better than my last.

10 March 2019, 12:31

Michael Robinson

The good agents know the rules and follow them. With the bad ones, well then, with them, all bets are off. What you must do is know the rules and follow them. Always bring your rifle, cased and unloaded, of course.

11 March 2019, 18:51

Fjold

I went to the Custom' office in Port Hueneme CA. We showed up about 20 minutes early for our appointment (an hour's drive) and they told us to come back in 20 minutes. There was no one else in the office.

Once we got in there the process was quick and easy. They didn't draw squiggly lines in all the blank spaces on the form like they did the last few times.

Frank

"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite

12 March 2019, 20:43

Pa.Frank

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

Ok! ......................

Coming back into the USA with guns is a complete crap shoot also with Customs. You just need to go with the flow.

Mark

I've only had one experience coming back into the country with guns and that was at NYC Kennedy airport.
My flight got in before 7am and Douchebag NYC local cop, (I interrupted his coffee) decided to give me a lecture on traveling with the bolts removed from the guns... after a 17 hour flight, I was in no mode for any B/S so I just let him ramble on so i could get the hell outa there... I won't fly through NYC again or even connect through there if I can help it... even if it cost me a few more bucks..

13 March 2019, 07:32

jjbull

quote:
Originally posted by Pa.Frank:

I've only had one experience coming back into the country with guns and that was at NYC Kennedy airport.
My flight got in before 7am and Douchebag NYC local cop, (I interrupted his coffee) decided to give me a lecture on traveling with the bolts removed from the guns... after a 17 hour flight, I was in no mode for any B/S so I just let him ramble on so i could get the hell outa there... I won't fly through NYC again or even connect through there if I can help it... even if it cost me a few more bucks..

My only trip thru NY, the officer thanked me for having the bolts removed; said it made them "feel safer"
Then he passed me off to an old cop with great cigars who accompanied us to check-in.
Everyone has a different experience, it seems.

13 March 2019, 10:27

Lhook7

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

Ok! Here's a few real experiences with Customs and 4457's. One Customs Agent I knew would mail you a 4457 if you supplied the necessary info via e-mail. An agent in the local Customs office told my client that they needed to bring the guns to the office for inspection etc. another agent in the same office told another client that they didn't need to bring the guns just the SN, make, model and caliber. Agents on several occasions have wanted to know all about my upcoming hunt etc while another recently was going to give me a lecture about the "Cecil" debacle if I had given him an opening.

Coming back into the USA with guns is a complete crap shoot also with Customs. You just need to go with the flow.

Mark

I know the first agent you mentioned and he is a great guy. I actually go in to get him to do mine just to shoot the crap with him.

13 March 2019, 20:40

Bud Meadows

In 2013, I flew back from Namibia with a connecting flight through Detroit. When I carried my gun box with my .300 WSM Winchester Model 70 to the Customs guy, I had my 4457 already in my hand. The Customs guy checked the serial number then asked for the 4457 on my Leupold Vari X II scope, since as he said ....”they’re made in Germany”. I showed him the prominent stamping on the scope that says “Made in USA”. I then asked his permission to access my IPHONE. I went to the Leupold website, where the banner stated “Proudly designed, manufactured and marketed in Oregon”. I then asked him what part of Germany is Oregon located.

13 March 2019, 23:40

Use Enough Gun

My 4457s list rifles, scopes, cameras, binos and anything else that a dumb ass Customs Agent like the one Bud experienced in Detroit could have any questions about. That appeared to be nothing more than harrassment.

14 March 2019, 17:59

Arniet

I got mine done last year in Lubec, Maine. I think that small offices are the best. Friendly and professional, what more can you ask for?

29 March 2019, 04:40

Ske1eter

quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
My 4457s list rifles, scopes, cameras, binos and anything else that a dumb ass Customs Agent like the one Bud experienced in Detroit could have any questions about. That appeared to be nothing more than harrassment.

Similarly, I had all of my gear that might be questioned put on the form. The last time I took my stuff up to McKinney instead of the Irving, TX office. All we friendly and professional and equally slow.

29 March 2019, 07:09

LHeym500

The Custom folks at Northern KY/Cincinnati are always professional and friendly, but they never let me put anything but scope and rifle on the 4457. They are nice about it, but tell me anything else is not necessary and have fill out a new one with just Rifle and scope.

30 March 2019, 05:47

Poochuss

Just got mine today.
Form is on a 8x12 sheet of paper printed at the CBP office. Filled out and stamped with the office address.

Not what I got in the past. Do you think this will be a problem?

30 March 2019, 16:43

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by Poochuss:
Just got mine today.
Form is on a 8x12 sheet of paper printed at the CBP office. Filled out and stamped with the office address.

Not what I got in the past. Do you think this will be a problem?

It is still the 4X6 centered in the standard sheet...isn’t it? If so...you may cut them to the regular size.

The form is available on CBP website. I always fill them in at home on computer and print on standard size paper. Then take them to the office for signing and stamping. I do usually cut mine down...but you would not have to I don’t think.

30 March 2019, 18:54

H T

So.... I'm going over in September and the form available on the CBP website shows the (misunderstood) expiration date as 08/31/2019. Great. Anyone still experiencing problems with that? I know that has been an issue in the past, due to the misconception that the "license" expires on the date shown on the form.

I'm hoping that the business as usual shift mentioned in this forum means that bit of silliness is over.

30 March 2019, 20:54

MARK H. YOUNG

HT

I think your asking for trouble as some sharp eyed SAPS officer could make your trip very uncomfortable.

Also printing the 4457 off from the computer works unless the CBP agent insists that the form is not valid because the office forms are two sided with info on the back. Some guy on here said that was exactly what happened to him.

Mark

30 March 2019, 21:18

H T

Oh, joy !

I don't doubt your observation about SAPS inspections and the inconsistencies that have been the case, at least in the past. Hoping for better.....

I was able to print the form on both sides, so it appears legit. I am wondering if a new 4457 is in the offing, coming from CBP. Anyone have insight on that? I suspect I'm not the only one who's going after August with a need for a new 4457.

(did I mention silliness?)

30 March 2019, 23:21

Poochuss

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
HT

I think your asking for trouble as some sharp eyed SAPS officer could make your trip very uncomfortable.

Also printing the 4457 off from the computer works unless the CBP agent insists that the form is not valid because the office forms are two sided with info on the back. Some guy on here said that was exactly what happened to him.

Mark, Mine was printed in the CBP office and only has the fron portion that is filled out. You can see the info filled in is original and the Office stamp is original. So this should not be a problem? Im just used to the old 4x6 forms.

31 March 2019, 07:08

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
HT

I think your asking for trouble as some sharp eyed SAPS officer could make your trip very uncomfortable.

Also printing the 4457 off from the computer works unless the CBP agent insists that the form is not valid because the office forms are two sided with info on the back. Some guy on here said that was exactly what happened to him.

Mark

They print 2-sided from the website. The CBP recommends you pre-print them from the website and fill them in on the computer so that all writing except signatures is type written.

31 March 2019, 07:14

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by H T:
So.... I'm going over in September and the form available on the CBP website shows the (misunderstood) expiration date as 08/31/2019. Great. Anyone still experiencing problems with that? I know that has been an issue in the past, due to the misconception that the "license" expires on the date shown on the form.

I'm hoping that the business as usual shift mentioned in this forum means that bit of silliness is over.

It will be a problem if you transit RSA in September. Right now...even from the office (Dallas at least) all they have is 8-31-2019 forms. They will update them sometime in the next few months.

31 March 2019, 07:22

ledvm

Rumor has it...that they are not going to provide forms anymore and everyone will need to show up with a form printed from the website.

31 March 2019, 07:53

LHeym500

I just got mine filled out Friday, March 29, 2019. All there is, is the 08/31/2019 form. I asked there is no form with further out date.

31 March 2019, 08:36

H T

Thanks, Gentlemen. Will wait and see what and when a new form is available. Appreciate knowing that this is indeed the latest form. Will get it done about 60 days before leaving so pre-clearance will not be impeded. (I hope!)

01 April 2019, 09:36

rodell

No one would ever edit the PDF and put another date on the form to show the needed validity. No way someone would do that.

02 April 2019, 09:09

TexKD

I have forms from different years for my rifles. While they "should" still be applicable, I have understood that in some cases the countries may not accept them if they are over a year old. I can't say about that but I am just throwing it out here in the thread.

While the 4457 form is of course a customs form, I have always believed that SAPS etc views these as a "rifle permit" more than a reimportation ownership customs form.

02 April 2019, 18:37

MARK H. YOUNG

Guys,

I spoke to Christy at Gracy Travel yesterday. Christy handles gun related issues for Gracy full time. She says that Bruce one of their employees on the ground at O.R. Tembo went to the SAPS folks and explained that the 8/31/19 date on the 4457's is the most recent and that is what they will be seeing on 4457 through this season. It seems SAPS is good with that. Hopefully problem avoided.

Mark

02 April 2019, 19:29

TexKD

Mark ^^^ - Taking Care of Business for us!

02 April 2019, 19:51

ledvm

CBP told me to expect an updated form in July. Who knows if it will happen.

03 April 2019, 01:46

H T

You guys are the best - good information, as usual. And no, I won't be altering a government form. Something about 18USC.whatever gives me serious pause.

03 April 2019, 22:25

Gojoe

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

Ok! Here's a few real experiences with Customs and 4457's. One Customs Agent I knew would mail you a 4457 if you supplied the necessary info via e-mail. An agent in the local Customs office told my client that they needed to bring the guns to the office for inspection etc. another agent in the same office told another client that they didn't need to bring the guns just the SN, make, model and caliber. Agents on several occasions have wanted to know all about my upcoming hunt etc while another recently was going to give me a lecture about the "Cecil" debacle if I had given him an opening.

Coming back into the USA with guns is a complete crap shoot also with Customs. You just need to go with the flow.

Mark

That is the best answer, go with the flow. And it is a crap shoot. Just have your forms correctly filled out and be ready to count to 10 under your breathe.

11 April 2019, 05:00

nhoro

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
The wife and I going on Safari in Zim in June. We are overnighting in Joberg (new experience for me) this time so took all the rifles in to CBP office north of DFW to get newly dated forms to satisfy SAP.

Last time I went in 2017...got all kinds of questions and stuff about where I was going and stuff.

This time it was back to like days of yesteryear...quick check of serial numbers...sign/stamp the form and out of there in 10 mins.

If headed to Zim, why would you subject yourself to the SAPS BS? Other activities, air miles? In the absence of a need to stop in Joberg, I'll gladly pay more to avoid it ....

JEB Katy, TX

Already I was beginning to fall into the African way of thinking: That if
you properly respect what you are after, and shoot it cleanly and on
the animal's terrain, if you imprison in your mind all the wonder of the
day from sky to smell to breeze to flowers—then you have not merely
killed an animal. You have lent immortality to a beast you have killed
because you loved him and wanted him forever so that you could always
recapture the day - Robert Ruark

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member

11 April 2019, 07:10

ledvm

Debbie Gracy has a home and lives much of the time Vic Falls right down the road from my friend and PH Nigel Theisen. We are going to Vic Falls for a few days at the beginning. Debbie arranged the travel. She likes the overnight in Joberg method and offers VIP services to get you to and fro City Lodge no hassles. We will see...I usually avoid.

12 April 2019, 18:02

JTEX

I go to South Africa quite a bit. I use Gracy, their VIP is very nice, SAPS has never been a problem in 10 or 12 trips, neither has JHB.

If you do the vip thing, someone from bidvest will meet you straight off the plane, whisk you through passport control, gather your luggage then hand you off to Bruce or Lucky. They will walk you to SAPS and help you get your guns, then walk you to the City Lodge.

I'm the morning one of them will be waiting for you at the hotel to get you ready for your connection.

Tell them I said hello!a

12 April 2019, 18:37

ledvm

Good to hear! I am using the VIP service.