Hi I have a conference to go to in Jo-berg in late February. How dangerous is it in the city? Any susggestons as to where to stay?

Regards,

Chuck

Keep your eyes peeled and avoid bad suburds and driving around too much at night. keep good company and always keep your doors of the car locked at all times.

Otherwsie it's not as bad as the media shows it to be.

Probably the best place to stay would be in the same place as the convention is being held. If it's not being held in a hotel, stay in the nearest good hotel to the venue.

Chuck,

Key to Joburg is twofold: location and presentation.

On location, the Sandton area, a regular conference venue, is generally fine. Downtown Joburg can be dangerous, especially to rubbernecking and very obvious tourists whose demeanor attracts the predators.

So, tell us where the Conference and your hotel are. But, for visiting other parts of the city, best to have a native Jobugger with you...

Regards, Tim

How dangerous is Joberg?

If you don't use a bit of smarts and keep your wits about you, extremely!!

The best place to stay is Sandton. I like the Balalaika (?) Hotel.

As far as going into downtown Joberg, if you don't have to, then don't

You have to remember that those who live there are constantly vigilant and aware. They act accordingly.

Tourists are often in a different state of mind and can drop their guard. Also tourists stick out like dogs balls....easy pickings.

Last I heard there are about 25,000 murders pa in SA. That's the ones they admit to knowing about. Rapes, muggings and robberies, that's another story.

The old "it won't happen to me" attitude will get you into trouble!!

On a more positive note, the beer, wine and food are second to none. The best steaks I have had were in SA. Not to mention the eland, impala, sprinbok................

BTW the locals can drink almost as much as Aussies and they are fun to be with. A lot of nice folk there.

Pinchon 1
You are usually oh so correct and accurate in your assesments, This time I must object. The RSA beef is the worst I've had anywhere, anywhere. The mince looks to have 50% soy added the steaks are a thin, chewy joke, I'd rather eat a tire off the cruiser. But the Boerwurst is always good. Agreed, the game is awesome, better than the beef.

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Pinchon 1
You are usually oh so correct and accurate in your assesments, This time I must object. The RSA beef is the worst I've had anywhere, anywhere. The mince looks to have 50% soy added the steaks are a thin, chewy joke, I'd rather eat a tire off the cruiser. But the Boerwurst is always good. Agreed, the game is awesome, better than the beef.

Hi mate,
I must just be lucky or eat at the right spots, but I have found their beef to be extremely good, but, like you I prefer game anyday, washed down with lots of lovely booze.

I was also served some excellent beef when I dined out in Pretoria. I was invited by some locals who knew where to go obviously.

The Afton House is great and they will provide safe accomodations and passage. Try them they are worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ehg5640:
The Afton House is great and they will provide safe accomodations and passage. Try them they are worth it.

Good thought, that is where I would try and stay.

I stayed in Sandton (sp ?) a few years ago for about four days .. I was told to be back in my hotel room by sundown as there they don't just rob you - but also shoot you... I did as was suggested ... I have a lady friend that lives in Joberg and survives ... but obviously is constantly vigilante ... Hell of a place to spend one's life, I reckon ...

There is are three restuarants that the Afton guest house takes their guest. I do not know their names, perhaps someone else does. What is a steak house. The others are seafood , perhaps the Ocean Basket and italian. They are next door to each other. When we were there in August 2007 the seafood place also had a belly dancer, which I thought was a bit odd, but she looked really good.

H Kittle

The driver that took us back and forth from Afton House to the restaurants told me that although the "GP" on the automobile license plates is supposed to stand for Gauteng Province (Jo'berg's province), it REALLY stands for "Gangster's Paradise".

The wife and I stayed in Sandton at the Hilton and it was great. I thought the beer and food were inexpensive and good. I've been to Jo'burg twice and I can't say I like it though; always nice to be out of there and either in Zimbabwe or on the way back home.

If you stay at the Afton House, have their brai (barbecue). Excellent steaks with the trimmings for only $20 US.

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:
How dangerous is Joberg?

If you don't use a bit of smarts and keep your wits about you, extremely!!

The best place to stay is Sandton. I like the Balalaika (?) Hotel.

As far as going into downtown Joberg, if you don't have to, then don't

You have to remember that those who live there are constantly vigilant and aware. They act accordingly.

Tourists are often in a different state of mind and can drop their guard. Also tourists stick out like dogs balls....easy pickings.

Last I heard there are about 25,000 murders pa in SA. That's the ones they admit to knowing about. Rapes, muggings and robberies, that's another story.

The old "it won't happen to me" attitude will get you into trouble!!

On a more positive note, the beer, wine and food are second to none. The best steaks I have had were in SA. Not to mention the eland, impala, sprinbok................

BTW the locals can drink almost as much as Aussies and they are fun to be with. A lot of nice folk there.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:
BTW the locals can drink almost as much as Aussies

Are you SA guys slowing down or what?

With all due respect to the posters who have recommended various hotels and guest houses etc. Johannesburg is a very big city and the traffic in Jo'burg is the absolute pits and second only to Dar es Salaam. You need to stay as close as possible to the conference venue in as good a hotel as possible.

Steve

Traffic? Ever been to Cairo? It is impossible to get any worse that Cairo. Dar is a picnic compared to Cairo!

No, I've never been to Cairo but if it's worse than Dar, I don't want to go!

Steve,

Cairo is as bad as it gets. I have never experienced worse anywhere. I do not have enough vocabulary to adequately describe it. No lines on the roads, no traffic lights, seriously unroadworthy cars, bad roads, rubbish everywhere, motorbikes, speeding, continuous hooting and people crossing in all directions everywhere ... 24/7. Fricking wild, man! I'll try and find some pics from when I went there ...

Sounds good mate - I'd like to see the pics!

Joberg is one of the most dangerous cities on the Planet.... But Danger is where it finds you, and it can find you anywhere...

I always stay at the Afton House.

I remember, on a couple of occasions, when driving back into Jo'burg with one of our PHs, that just as soon as we hit the city limits, the PH would pull out his handgun, and put it between his legs. His whole attitude changed just as soon as the gun came out. The first time he did that it got my attention real fast! I had another PH yell at me for rolling the window down to take pictures when we drove through Pretoria in the mid morning on our way to camp. So, yes, it is one of the more dangerous cities on Planet Earth

quote:

I had another PH yell at me for rolling the window down to take pictures when we drove through Pretoria in the mid morning on our way to camp

Wow! That sounds a bit paranoid. PTA has its issues too but I spend a good deal of time there, sans problems. Yep, JHB is unfortunately a dangerous city but checking first where you want to go with a local is always a good idea.

This last November I helped with a Brand South Africa project to tour a group of US bloggers around the country. Some had loads of travel experience, including SA and other parts of Africa. One guy commented on how mellow JHB seemed to some Brazillian cities he was used...interesting perspective.

Keep your eyes open, be careful but remember hundreds of thousands of tourists move about in SA with no hassle, including JHB, although most seem to take guided tours in the city - perhaps a good idea of you are interested?

The old saying vermin thrive on the weak has meaning

South Africa is like any country in the world, the bigger the city the more vermin there will be, and they will thrive on the weak and the mild and THE F!@#$@# STUPID that wants too go dancing in SOWETO

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Pinchon 1
You are usually oh so correct and accurate in your assesments, This time I must object. The RSA beef is the worst I've had anywhere, anywhere. The mince looks to have 50% soy added the steaks are a thin, chewy joke, I'd rather eat a tire off the cruiser. But the Boerwurst is always good. Agreed, the game is awesome, better than the beef.

" I doubt if it is any worse than Chile's beef. They eat dairy cattle here and they do not age the meat!! The best I have had would be Argentina and Uruguay.

quote:

Originally posted by Kwan:
The old saying vermin thrive on the weak has meaning

South Africa is like any country in the world, the bigger the city the more vermin there will be, and they will thrive on the weak and the mild and THE F!@#$@# STUPID that wants too go dancing in SOWETO

Dancing in Soweto

Chuck,

It's getting towards late February and we await your "After Action Report..."

Regards, Tim

Steve,

I found the traffic in Dar to be okay. Try Rio if you want a life changing experience. Particularly, take a cab from the airport to Copacabana!

And Chilean beef is some of the best I've ever had, BTW.

quote:

Originally posted by Bahati:
Steve,

Cairo is as bad as it gets. I have never experienced worse anywhere. I do not have enough vocabulary to adequately describe it. No lines on the roads, no traffic lights, seriously unroadworthy cars, bad roads, rubbish everywhere, motorbikes, speeding, continuous hooting and people crossing in all directions everywhere ... 24/7. Fricking wild, man! I'll try and find some pics from when I went there ...

I went through Cairo around Christmas of '82 on the way to Sharm el Sheik for a diving trip, the van we hired was hit eight times by the time we got clear, nobody stopped. Place was a giant game of bumper cars.

'Course, back then Sharm was a dinky little place in danger of drying up after the Israelis gave it back to Egypt, but the diving was great...

Try driving to the hotel overlooking the zocolo in Mexico City during a religious holiday if you want to see traffic.

As for Johannesburg's safety, I can almost cry when I think how safe that city was in the middle 1980s. I always stayed at the Carlton Centre, visited the Rowland Ward store and the other stores downstairs, and walked down the street to Safrique to shop every time I was there. We could walk outside day or night around the Carlton then.

A few months after the arrival of the "new South Africa," we drove in on the highway from Pretoria and took an exit that led to the restaurant we wanted -- and came upon the aftermath of a carjacking. The car's driver was dead in the middle of the road, his vehicle was long gone, and police were everywhere.

My friends with whom I stay with when I'm in the Pretoria area reside among the embassies in Waterkloof. I always thought their home was among the safest places in that area until there was a running gun battle with a bad guy jumping over a fence into my hosts' yard a month or so after I'd been there.

Bill Quimby

As someone who has seen a bit of traffic in the developing world, I have to say that last week takes the cake for me. I think Rome is usually a difficult place to drive, but try driving around Vatican City....during Holy Week.

I find it quite amusing when a South African PH will say to a client, "Don't go to Zimbabwe, it is not safe there, come hunt in SA!"

Makes me laugh. The big cities are the dangerous areas, more dangerous in SA than in Zimbabwe.

quote:

Keep your eyes peeled and avoid bad suburds and driving around too much at night. keep good company and always keep your doors of the car locked at all times.

Doesn't sound much different than how I would advise visitors to act in Las Vegas....

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
I find it quite amusing when a South African PH will say to a client, "Don't go to Zimbabwe, it is not safe there, come hunt in SA!"

Makes me laugh. The big cities are the dangerous areas, more dangerous in SA than in Zimbabwe.

Never a truer word was spoken.

Well, I can tell that none of you have been to Riyadh. I can't imagine worse traffice than I witnessed when I was there many years ago. It was bumper cars and the Indy 500 all rolled into one, with infidels always being at fault, no matter who hit who.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
I find it quite amusing when a South African PH will say to a client, "Don't go to Zimbabwe, it is not safe there, come hunt in SA!"

Makes me laugh. The big cities are the dangerous areas, more dangerous in SA than in Zimbabwe.

From a Brits perspective at least, in Zim you're more likely to be murdered/robbed or kidnapped for political motives, whereas in SA I guess its just money....as the victim though I guess the point is moot!

I worked in Iraq with a bloke who's father ran a debt collection agency in J'burg....he felt that on balance, he was safer away from that!