The Accurate Reloading Forums
Suggest a smith for a barrel change.
07 September 2013, 09:28
Savage_99Suggest a smith for a barrel change.
What smith or barrel company do you suggest to change a barrel on the rifle below and to blue the barrel?
The rifle has a pre-64 Winchester M70 action in a custom stock. The barrel is a 22" .300 Win. Mag. It shoots ok but it's more power than I want for deer and off season coyotes.
I was thinking of a 24" barrel in 7mm Rem. Mag.
Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says.
When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like!
Do that with your optics.
07 September 2013, 17:38
Jim KobeDon't know what caliber it is now, but 7mag is a pretty heavy caliber.
I do this all the time, send me a PM or email for a price and delivery time.
Jkob60@msn.com
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Kobe
10841 Oxborough Ave So
Bloomington MN 55437
952.884.6031
Former Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild
07 September 2013, 18:19
DonW28Jim replaced a barrel for me last year and does first rate work.
Don
Trust only those who stand to lose as much as you do when things go wrong.
07 September 2013, 18:47
lee440Another vote for Jim. To me there is very little difference between the 7mag and the 300 mag as far as being a bit much for a deer and coyote gun. Since you are limited by bolt face to a belted mag, have you thought about trying something like a .257 WTBY mag? A little more pleasant recoil-wise and extremely effective on deer and coyotes.
DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.)
N.R.A (Life)
T.S.R.A (Life)
D.S.C.
07 September 2013, 19:43
James KainI would still say that's overkill. Do you have to have as a need a mag or is it a want? You have many many options. Personally I'd drop back to 6.5mm/.264cal.maybe go with the 6.5-06, or bump it up for the punch with a 8mm Mouser. Do you need to worry about distance or dropping power? A great smith who did my 6.5Sweedish is Judson Bailey in St. Albins Maine. Customguns.us
keep us posted on what you do and who dose the work!
James Kain
Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
08 September 2013, 07:04
craigsterquote:
Originally posted by James Kain:
I would still say that's overkill. Do you have to have as a need a mag or is it a want? You have many many options. Personally I'd drop back to 6.5mm/.264cal.maybe go with the 6.5-06, or bump it up for the punch with a 8mm Mouser. Do you need to worry about distance or dropping power? A great smith who did my 6.5Sweedish is Judson Bailey in St. Albins Maine. Customguns.us
keep us posted on what you do and who dose the work!
James Kain
Mag bolt face not compatible with a 6.5-06 or the 8x57.
08 September 2013, 18:48
airgun1That is not much of a change down in my opinion. The 22 inch 300 Win is a pretty good reason to change in itself though.
The gun is a magnum and is going to be a little big for deer; a 257 Wby or 264 Win Mag may also light your fire.
Perhaps make it a 338 Win Mag or larger and buy a new deer gun as well or sell it and buy a better deer gun.
PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor
08 September 2013, 19:17
Chuck NelsonHaving used both the 300 Win Mag and 7mm Remington Magnum, the 7mm is a step down in recoil and is not overkill for anything.
08 September 2013, 20:20
rnoviSavage, have you tried loading down 150gr. Barnes Bullets? A 150 at 3,000 would give you a very good idea of how that rifle would feel as a 30-06. Moreover, if you get accuracy that way, then why bother with the change?
Regards,
Robert
******************************
H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer!
08 September 2013, 20:51
xausaquote:
Originally posted by Savage_99:
What smith or barrel company do you suggest to change a barrel on the rifle below and to blue the barrel?
The rifle has a pre-64 Winchester M70 action in a custom stock.
You should be aware that a number of "accuracy" gunsmiths shy away from the pre-64 Model 70, I suppose because they don't wish to become involved with the cone breech and extractor cut. I found this out to my dismay when looking for someone to build target rifles for me on the Model 70 action over 25 years ago, and I imagine it's worse now.
09 September 2013, 07:35
Savage_99quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:
Savage, have you tried loading down 150gr. Barnes Bullets? A 150 at 3,000 would give you a very good idea of how that rifle would feel as a 30-06. Moreover, if you get accuracy that way, then why bother with the change?
I have been shooting it with 150 and 155 gr bullets over 3031 and RL 10. The faster powders are what I like for reduced loads.
The 3031 load is very accurate and making estimated 30-06+ velocities.
Of course I can continue as it is. I just want to run this one up the flag pole here and get some ideas for an 'after the season' project.
I have had rifles since 1953 and for big game I already have them in 264, 300HH, 7mm Mag, 30-06, 375's, 358's along with varmint and target rifles.
This M70 has good chamber in that the shoulder is not way out there. However it's barrel is only 22" long and the rifle is heavy at over 8 lbs. It only fit's in the category of being a current pet and second fiddle even then to another custom.
The thing is the current magnum bolt face. I already have a 264 Westerner but no 7mm RM at present. I don't want to even think about Weatherby cartridges please.
So maybe a 24" 7mm RM barrel this winter!
At the range the other day it put it's first shot 3" to the right at 200 yds from a cold fouled barrel and the second 2" high for a 3" group. Then from it's hot barrel it made a 1.5" group at 200y.
Whats most important to me is where the first shot goes from a hunting rifles cold barrel.
Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says.
When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like!
Do that with your optics.
09 September 2013, 16:56
airgun1When I said it was a magnum earlier, I shoul have also addressed that as well as the bolt face(and extractor), the feed rails may have been altered, magazine box, follower, etc.
Yep she has pretty much gotta be a magnum. a 24" 7mm Rem Mag is versatile for sure. I.T.D. Custom Gun in Minerva, OH has no problems with pre 64 70 work. He keeps Douglas barrels on hand but will use what you want. Douglas is a daggone good hunting rifle barrel.
PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor
09 September 2013, 17:02
Jim KobeI don't know why anyone would not want to rebarrel a model 70, it is a straight forward job, I have done a bunch of them.
Jim Kobe
10841 Oxborough Ave So
Bloomington MN 55437
952.884.6031
Former Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild
09 September 2013, 18:11
Chuck Nelsonquote:
Originally posted by airgun1:
When I said it was a magnum earlier, I shoul have also addressed that as well as the bolt face(and extractor), the feed rails may have been altered, magazine box, follower, etc.
Yep she has pretty much gotta be a magnum. a 24" 7mm Rem Mag is versatile for sure. I.T.D. Custom Gun in Minerva, OH has no problems with pre 64 70 work. He keeps Douglas barrels on hand but will use what you want. Douglas is a daggone good hunting rifle barrel.
I wouldn't have IT&D wipe the mud off a rifle let alone rebarrel one.
09 September 2013, 18:47
craigsterquote:
Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
quote:
Originally posted by airgun1:
When I said it was a magnum earlier, I shoul have also addressed that as well as the bolt face(and extractor), the feed rails may have been altered, magazine box, follower, etc.
Yep she has pretty much gotta be a magnum. a 24" 7mm Rem Mag is versatile for sure. I.T.D. Custom Gun in Minerva, OH has no problems with pre 64 70 work. He keeps Douglas barrels on hand but will use what you want. Douglas is a daggone good hunting rifle barrel.
I wouldn't have IT&D wipe the mud off a rifle let alone rebarrel one.
And why is that?
09 September 2013, 19:49
dogcatHill Country Rifles did mine. They do an excellent job.
09 September 2013, 20:57
larrysI have had both Jim Kobe and Hill Country do re-barrels for me. Both did excelent jobs, but only Jim called me a couple weeks later to see if I was happy with his work. That is good enough for me!
Larry
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson
09 September 2013, 21:24
Glen71quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
quote:
Originally posted by airgun1:
When I said it was a magnum earlier, I shoul have also addressed that as well as the bolt face(and extractor), the feed rails may have been altered, magazine box, follower, etc.
Yep she has pretty much gotta be a magnum. a 24" 7mm Rem Mag is versatile for sure. I.T.D. Custom Gun in Minerva, OH has no problems with pre 64 70 work. He keeps Douglas barrels on hand but will use what you want. Douglas is a daggone good hunting rifle barrel.
I wouldn't have IT&D wipe the mud off a rifle let alone rebarrel one.
And why is that?
+1
10 September 2013, 05:01
Chuck Nelsonquote:
Originally posted by craigster:
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
quote:
Originally posted by airgun1:
When I said it was a magnum earlier, I shoul have also addressed that as well as the bolt face(and extractor), the feed rails may have been altered, magazine box, follower, etc.
Yep she has pretty much gotta be a magnum. a 24" 7mm Rem Mag is versatile for sure. I.T.D. Custom Gun in Minerva, OH has no problems with pre 64 70 work. He keeps Douglas barrels on hand but will use what you want. Douglas is a daggone good hunting rifle barrel.
I wouldn't have IT&D wipe the mud off a rifle let alone rebarrel one.
And why is that?
I have a rifle that they have rebarreled. That's why.
10 September 2013, 07:10
craigsterquote:
Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
quote:
Originally posted by airgun1:
When I said it was a magnum earlier, I shoul have also addressed that as well as the bolt face(and extractor), the feed rails may have been altered, magazine box, follower, etc.
Yep she has pretty much gotta be a magnum. a 24" 7mm Rem Mag is versatile for sure. I.T.D. Custom Gun in Minerva, OH has no problems with pre 64 70 work. He keeps Douglas barrels on hand but will use what you want. Douglas is a daggone good hunting rifle barrel.
I wouldn't have IT&D wipe the mud off a rifle let alone rebarrel one.
And why is that?
I have a rifle that they have rebarreled. That's why.
So do I, three as a matter fact.
10 September 2013, 17:18
Glen71I've had four or five re-barreled at IT&D, either for family or for customers, though none recently. All were great shooters.
10 September 2013, 19:59
Savage_99Thanks to all for the feedback. I will keep the names of the smiths. If one wants to post an estimate $ for a new Douglas level barrel, 24", no sights and bright blue it would be of interest.
Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says.
When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like!
Do that with your optics.
10 September 2013, 20:12
dave wesbrookWhy did you waste all of these people's time. You are obviously simply trying to low ball somebody. Send it to Douglas...or Kobe
10 September 2013, 21:18
larrysTo do right, you will spend at least $700-$800 which may include square and straight. (Always good things) You will also find that a Shilen barrel will cost about the same, or less, if that matters. I have both Douglas XX and Shilen match (along with Brux, Lilja and others) and when done properly will both shoot better than I can hold from field positions.
Remember, the barrel is no better than the smith who installs it. Do not skimp there.
Larry
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson
10 September 2013, 23:29
Jim Kobequote:
Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why did you waste all of these people's time. You are obviously simply trying to low ball somebody. Send it to Douglas...or Kobe
I won't lo-ball him. If he wants to contact me I would give him a straight price and, I won't be put into a bidding war.
Jim Kobe
10841 Oxborough Ave So
Bloomington MN 55437
952.884.6031
Former Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild
11 September 2013, 00:41
Savage_99quote:
Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why did you waste all of these people's time. You are obviously simply trying to low ball somebody. Send it to Douglas...or Kobe
Dave Wesbrook,
Cheer up Dave.
I wanted to talk about the rifle I got a year ago and explore some options. I brought it to a smith last winter and he quoted $700 to do it. I was surprised at the high quote. Not that I don't have $700 however I paid only $529 for it as you see it in the pictures with that old Redfield scope on it.
Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says.
When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like!
Do that with your optics.
11 September 2013, 00:50
craigsterquote:
Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why did you waste all of these people's time. You are obviously simply trying to low ball somebody. Send it to Douglas...or Kobe
Why did you "waste"
your time with this post?
11 September 2013, 00:57
Savage_99quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
quote:
Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why did you waste all of these people's time. You are obviously simply trying to low ball somebody. Send it to Douglas...or Kobe
Why did you "waste"
your time with this post?
craigster,
Try to be a gentleman. I want to show and talk about my rifle.
As DJ Paintless wrote: "Remember, all this is just for fun."
Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says.
When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like!
Do that with your optics.
11 September 2013, 09:45
craigsterquote:
Originally posted by Savage_99:
quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
quote:
Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why did you waste all of these people's time. You are obviously simply trying to low ball somebody. Send it to Douglas...or Kobe
Why did you "waste"
your time with this post?
craigster,
Try to be a gentleman. I want to show and talk about my rifle.
As DJ Paintless wrote: "Remember, all this is just for fun."
I don't have to try. I would suggest that you direct your suggestions in another direction.
11 September 2013, 23:15
sliversThreads like this one always seem to go down hill. There are some very good 'smiths who have responded, so far. There are, also, hundreds if not thousands of others spread across the country who do excellent work. I think it always pays to look around locally and vist with others who have had work done locally before asking on an internt forum. There's nothing like dealing with someone face to face. If you can't seem to find some locally, then go to the web. There are some 'smiths that do barrel work on many different actions, then, there are some who only work on specific actions. That is their choice. If a 'smith has all the work he can handle and only works on Rem. 700s or custom actions why would he take on any other? On the other hand, some would find working with just a custom action/700 boring. As for "bidding wars",,,,,,,,, not around my shop! Take it or leave it. If you don't like the price, no response needed, just move on to the next one. I feel those who will 'discount' work just to get it might not be the best man for the job. Those who are capable and do good work never seem to need to offer 'discounts' to stay busy. As usual,, JM2cents
12 September 2013, 00:37
TC1Take a look at this guy and tell me he doesn't know what he's doing. Hand inspected to make sure the bore is both straight and round. That's quality right there!
They'll hook you up and save you some $$$$. That's what custom rifles are all about, right?
Good, Cheap and Fast. (pick any two)
--------------------------------------------
Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
12 September 2013, 04:08
sliversquote:
Originally posted by TC1:
Take a look at this guy and tell me he doesn't know what he's doing. Hand inspected to make sure the bore is both straight and round. That's quality right there!
They'll hook you up and save you some $$$$. That's what custom rifles are all about, right?
Good, Cheap and Fast. (pick any two)
Sorry,,, just had to reply to this one. The last E.R.S. barrel I bore scoped looked like a file on the inside!
12 September 2013, 12:13
TC1Then you're look'n too hard.
--------------------------------------------
Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
12 September 2013, 18:04
sliversquote:
Originally posted by TC1:
Then you're look'n too hard.
I look 'hard' at every barrel I install! So far this year I've installed 42. A good 'smith can't make a bad barrel into a good one. I demand the best in components, especially barrels and stock wood. Tool marks left inside of a barrel don't remind me of the 'best'. The labor is the same to install a not so good tube as it is to install a premium barrel. "Customs" are not about how 'cheap' you can get it,,,,,, it's about getting what you want! Dickering over price, when it comes to quality custom work, is for amatures. I've turned away customers who want me to use sub-standard comonents, and I've still got more work than I can handle.
12 September 2013, 18:23
TC1You sound like just the man for Savage-99's job.
--------------------------------------------
Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
12 September 2013, 19:32
butchlambertTC1,
He still hasn't got it. I hate that as I'm an Okie also.
12 September 2013, 19:39
TC1
--------------------------------------------
Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
21 September 2013, 18:29
Boss Hossquote:
Originally posted by Savage_99:
quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:
Savage, have you tried loading down 150gr. Barnes Bullets? A 150 at 3,000 would give you a very good idea of how that rifle would feel as a 30-06. Moreover, if you get accuracy that way, then why bother with the change?
I have been shooting it with 150 and 155 gr bullets over 3031 and RL 10. The faster powders are what I like for reduced loads.
The 3031 load is very accurate and making estimated 30-06+ velocities.
Of course I can continue as it is. I just want to run this one up the flag pole here and get some ideas for an 'after the season' project.
I have had rifles since 1953 and for big game I already have them in 264, 300HH, 7mm Mag, 30-06, 375's, 358's along with varmint and target rifles.
This M70 has good chamber in that the shoulder is not way out there. However it's barrel is only 22" long and the rifle is heavy at over 8 lbs. It only fit's in the category of being a current pet and second fiddle even then to another custom.
The thing is the current magnum bolt face. I already have a 264 Westerner but no 7mm RM at present. I don't want to even think about Weatherby cartridges please.
So maybe a 24" 7mm RM barrel this winter!
At the range the other day it put it's first shot 3" to the right at 200 yds from a cold fouled barrel and the second 2" high for a 3" group. Then from it's hot barrel it made a 1.5" group at 200y.
Whats most important to me is where the first shot goes from a hunting rifles cold barrel.
Well some of your problem is shooting technique. The rest you have is not going to give repeatability.
To be very blunt might as well use a Douglas because just putting a barrel on will not give you what you want. To get cold shot "poi" the same or so close it does not make any difference with a fouled or hot tube it is going to take a lot more work. Additionally, the Smith I use will not use Wilson tubes.
I have a safe full of rifles both competition and sporters that will do this. 99.9% people do not go to the trouble I do to ensure that this is the case such as owning all of my own reamers and making my own dies(Smith does them). Sporters are built to the same tolerances as BR rifles.
You get what you pay for in this industry... Adjust your expectations accordingly.
21 September 2013, 22:49
GrenadierSavage_99- Why not just get another rifle in a caliber that suits you?
I have had a few rifles rebarreled but it was always for one of two reasons, either the bore was bad or I wanted to shoot a caliber that the rifles were not offered in. In your case, you have a perfectly good rifle and barrel. You can sell or trade your 300 for another pre-64 Winchester in .257, .270, or 30-06. You won't loose the advantage of the low price you paid for your rifle and you will save against the extra you are going to have to spend for a new barrel. What is more, the new rifle will most likely already have open sights, a nice feature and something that will cost extra if you decide you want them on a rebarrel job.
.
22 September 2013, 00:48
Savage_99quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
quote:
Originally posted by Savage_99:
quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:
Savage, have you tried loading down 150gr. Barnes Bullets? A 150 at 3,000 would give you a very good idea of how that rifle would feel as a 30-06. Moreover, if you get accuracy that way, then why bother with the change?
I have been shooting it with 150 and 155 gr bullets over 3031 and RL 10. The faster powders are what I like for reduced loads.
The 3031 load is very accurate and making estimated 30-06+ velocities.
Of course I can continue as it is. I just want to run this one up the flag pole here and get some ideas for an 'after the season' project.
I have had rifles since 1953 and for big game I already have them in 264, 300HH, 7mm Mag, 30-06, 375's, 358's along with varmint and target rifles.
This M70 has good chamber in that the shoulder is not way out there. However it's barrel is only 22" long and the rifle is heavy at over 8 lbs. It only fit's in the category of being a current pet and second fiddle even then to another custom.
The thing is the current magnum bolt face. I already have a 264 Westerner but no 7mm RM at present. I don't want to even think about Weatherby cartridges please.
So maybe a 24" 7mm RM barrel this winter!
At the range the other day it put it's first shot 3" to the right at 200 yds from a cold fouled barrel and the second 2" high for a 3" group. Then from it's hot barrel it made a 1.5" group at 200y.
Whats most important to me is where the first shot goes from a hunting rifles cold barrel.
Well some of your problem is shooting technique. The rest you have is not going to give repeatability.
To be very blunt might as well use a Douglas because just putting a barrel on will not give you what you want. To get cold shot "poi" the same or so close it does not make any difference with a fouled or hot tube it is going to take a lot more work. Additionally, the Smith I use will not use Wilson tubes.
I have a safe full of rifles both competition and sporters that will do this. 99.9% people do not go to the trouble I do to ensure that this is the case such as owning all of my own reamers and making my own dies(Smith does them). Sporters are built to the same tolerances as BR rifles.
You get what you pay for in this industry... Adjust your expectations accordingly.
The rest I have does give repeatability with many of my other rifles! Most often I try to simulate how I would shoot a particular rifle in the field. While I shoot rifles from that soft type rest most often I hand hold the rifle and rest my wrist on something. My back pack is one such rest.
I have been tuning rifles for 60 years. I do them myself.
I got enough good suggestions on where I might ship the rifle if I decide to rebarrel. Since I have many other rifles ready and in fact my old pre-64 M70 300 H&H is sighted in and has been one of my go to longer range game rifles. Of late my old M70 Westerner has captured my interest and that's ready as well. It's shooting the 129 gr Hornady SST's very well.
It's just that I am not fond of .300 magnums for my hunting and the old 300 HH is a better rifle anyway. Perhaps I will just put this custom aside after I tire of it. It shot 165's well at the range the other day.
Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says.
When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like!
Do that with your optics.