I recently purchased this pre 64 bottom metal which the seller described as original Wisner unit. I cant find it on his web site , just wondering if anyone has run across one of these before and can verify

Looks more like a Grisel/Dakota/Sunnyhill to me.

Its one piece if that makes a difference, the mag box is integral to it

Wisner usually stamped his trademark on them; an upper case "W" in a Circle

the wisner mauser bottom metal have a 4 digit + letter stamp on the fp. not sure the win have it.

it does look like wisner.

I have used the Wisner unit for both pre & post 64 Model 70's. They never had a magazine box on them. I have a post 64 long action that I'll never use if some one needs one.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Looks more like a Grisel/Dakota/Sunnyhill to me.

ding ding ding we have a winner

Please don't hurl rocks & stones if I'm wrong, but I believe Wisner bottom metal are two-piece units with the trigger guard silver soldered/brazed to the magazine box. I seem to remember that Jim Wisner told me this enabled him to hold closer tolerances/better alignment than making a one-piece unit. Also, I believe it was Williams Firearms that marked their bottom metal with a "W" in a circle. Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Roger

There are no markings that I can find, looks to be a quality unit though

Looks like a SunnyHill that I have. No markings and they are one piece like that one. I asked a similar question on this forum and, as I remember, SunnyHill was the only one piece.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Looks more like a Grisel/Dakota/Sunnyhill to me.

ding ding ding we have a winner

I tig welded the guards on more of those than I care to think about back in about 1990. Hard to forget what one looks like. Good property to own though.

quote:

Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
Please don't hurl rocks & stones if I'm wrong, but I believe Wisner bottom metal are two-piece units with the trigger guard silver soldered/brazed to the magazine box. I seem to remember that Jim Wisner told me this enabled him to hold closer tolerances/better alignment than making a one-piece unit. Also, I believe it was Williams Firearms that marked their bottom metal with a "W" in a circle. Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Roger

I stand corrected, Roger, I think you are correct!

That is a Grisel/Sunny Hill/Dakota guard.

My guards were stamped inside the spring slot with either J L WISNER, or PME, and then the part #, and assembly # which was also stamped else where on the guard as well, to keep the floor plates matched up with the guards.

Yes I use a W in a circle on a couple of CNC'ed gun parts, but never on any trigger guard unit, I also have a Trademark that is a underlined W, that I use on several magazines


Hope every one had a Great Thanksgiving

J Wisner

Thanks for all the input!

I stand corrected. The bottom metal I have is a Williams not a Wisner.

Can Williams units still be purchased?

I looked at their web site yesterday. Looks like they are still there.

Their web site says sales through Brownells only, no direct sales. Brownells web site says 'discontinued'. I used some years ago, not bad at all.

Not picking at anyone directly here.

For all those who demand the ability to buy custom floormetal at "reasonable" prices, BY ALL MEANS, make them your self and offer them 4 sale.

At a profit???

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gunmaker:
Not picking at anyone directly here.

For all those who demand the ability to buy custom floormetal at "reasonable" prices, BY ALL MEANS, make them your self and offer them 4 sale.

At a profit????

What's a "reasonable" price.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:

What's a "reasonable" price.

Had this discussion with Williams several years ago on another forum and if I remember correctly, I was instructed that his guards were the best available at any price and the price was very competitive. Anything over that price was unreasonable. Not too long after that discussion I seem to remember his prices just about doubling. Wonder why....

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:

What's a "reasonable" price.

Had this discussion with Williams several years ago on another forum and if I remember correctly, I was instructed that his guards were the best available at any price and the price was very competitive. Anything over that price was unreasonable. Not too long after that discussion I seem to remember his prices just about doubling. Wonder why....

He probably figured out he was leaving money on the table, so he raised prices.
As I recall those could be had for around $200.00

Does a viable market remain for those or is it dead, like most products that don't support the long range game.

IIRC they were priced much closer to $100. Of course I'm thinking dealer price, but the internet kind of broke that type of discount for most any product.

Not sure if this still holds true.

Williams Bottom Metals - Has Closed

I wonder how much it would cost to have some made in China?

Chinese and custom rifle just don't go together!

I have made and have had made for me 98 and Mod-70 bottom metal units ever since the mid 80's. These were 1st made by Robert Schniedmiller and by Tom Burgess.For the last 15 years by Central Vally Machine.

In regard to Model 70s I have had the floor-plates made the proper lengths and widths to use with my magazine boxes. I have had them made for 243/308 Win's, 270/30-06, standard length and width belted magnums and Long belted magnums. 264 Wins, 300/375 H&H's, 300 Wtby's, 416 Rem and 375 Wtby's and 458 Lott's.
Let's not forget the 375/416 Ruger and 404 Jeffery widths, yep those to. Any PRE-64 stuff ???? I wonder

I offered these at 1st made from 11L17 for around $350 and later on from Chrome Moly, 17-4 Stainless and even 7075 Aluminum. I'd have them made in batches and offered them for sale as well at $650.00 per assembly which was to allowed me a reasonable mark up for my efforts. I have sold less than 6 units in total.

I had zero interest except from those clients that I was building a complete rifle for. Granted they were being held hostage but did love the final product.

As I have now used up all but 3 or 4 units from my last run of G series Model 70 units I'm here to say I won't make another run of Model 70 or 98's assemblies again.

There have been quite a few great craftsman that made and still make assemblies. Jim Wisner being and excellent example, Stuart Satterlee being another. Then there are many others like Jame Anderson, Stephen Heilmann, Gene Simillion, Ralf Martini and Reto Buehler that can make one from a solid block of steel for anything. However once completed are going to be way North of $650 and should be.

Been there-done that and have way to many T-shirts to show for it.

To get the price down to where everyone can afford these will require making runs in access of a 1000 units per the design required for each length/width etc for each action configuration etc. Then we'll need to also cut back on some quality. What !!!!!!! No way !!!!!!

Read um and weep

Remember the manufacture needs to make a solid return on their efforts and investment. In short, to make it pay. You get what you pay for, cheaply made is just what the name describes. Not everybody wants or needs a Cadillac version, trust me I get it, but oddly enough nobody seems to want a Pinto either.


Just one man's opinion. But based on time actually spent in the trenches.

I think for the vast majority of people its difficult to swallow putting a $650 floor metal on a $250 mauser action.

I once had a business school instructor say that it you were selling too many units you weren't charging enough, and if you weren't selling enough units you were charging too much.

I remember watching Ted Blackburn make a couple of his units in his last shop before he passed. He had two very large machines that did the work.

I asked him why they needed to be made from a solid block of steel.

I'll ask here. Why do they?

Pre 9/11 there was a gunsmith in Canada selling Blackburn Mauser 98 TG's copies for $99.00 from China. Looked real good, nice fit and finish but could use a new FP pin to take up the wobble. his email came from a post on this forum.

Oh boy! here we go, "Made in China" is all we need! Those oughta' be real nice!

Lindy
Why don't you tool up and produce them you seem to have it all covered, go for it man !!!!!!!

Not interested in making them. Maybe importing a few from china.

I am happy to pay the going rate for good metal, when I can find it. Thinking about a small VMC for just that purpose. 4 Months out for a blackburn .375 box and since Duane sold his business a true .404 box seems to be unobtainium. Crazy times trying to build a bolt gun. I am used to having to make everything on old single shot rifles but this is getting ridiculous.

Having actually had a hand in making Mauser and Winchester bottom metal, I can tell you that it is nothing to sneeze at. There is more that can go wrong during manufacture than right. 650$ is cheap.

As for putting a 650$ piece of bottom metal on a $250 action...well, once you decide to open that door (messing with a $250 Mauser) you had better be willing to walk through it if you want the end result to be anything approaching professional and functional.

I there anyone making quality steel, one piece, Mauser style bottom metal for the Remington 700 SA??

I remember Ted Blackburn making bottom metal and grip caps in his shop in Sunnyvale, CA before he moved to Utah. He did good work.

this is a CAD/CAM dust pan handle in aluminum. FF to 9:46.


https://youtu.be/8zb92v5Vz40

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
I think for the vast majority of people its difficult to swallow putting a $650 floor metal on a $250 mauser action.

Buy a Dumoulin mystery origin FP or a Mark X.

Why polish a $250 turd?

quote:

Buy a Dumoulin mystery origin FP or a Mark X.

I have a Mark X that came with nice bottom metal. The whole rifle cost $400 when I bought it! But I have 3 g.33/40s that are worth polishing.

Posting for D'Arcy:

Some Model 70’s in Stainless and 7075 Aluminum


Chrome Moly


7075 as are the scope rings



17-4 Stainless


Chrome Moly


98 assembly made by Schniedmiller Industries 11L17


Central Valley Machine Chrome Moly








A Wisner assembly made from 1018 A rifle from the late 80’s

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