Maurice Ottmar

05 December 2015, 09:28

ColoradoMatt

Maurice Ottmar

I held in my hands today the finest custom bolt rifle I've ever touched. It was a 375 Holland built on an Oberndorf "Standard Modell" action, ultra marbled Circassian style walnut stock, with Blackburn bottom metal. I assume Mr. Ottmar did all the work, as his name is on the right side of the barrel. Any idea what something like this is worth? Thanks

Matt
FISH!!

Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

05 December 2015, 17:25

ClaMar

If you don't post a picture, it doesn't exist...

Seriously, lots of people would like to see a picture of the rifle; he did fine work.

Clarence

05 December 2015, 18:04

Biebs

I had one some time ago. I think I sold it for $6,500, if memory serves me.

05 December 2015, 21:48

ColoradoMatt

It's on cabelas website in the gun library section.

05 December 2015, 22:33

LJS

Beautiful rifle at a very reasonable price. If you don't mind no sights, I'll bet it could be bought for $4500.

06 December 2015, 04:26

vicvanb

There is one at the Lone Tree (CO) Cabela's. Same rifle you saw?? Their price should answer your question.

06 December 2015, 04:58

ColoradoMatt

In most cases, Cabela's prices are quite high. This rifle was among around 80 rifles bought from a collector here in Colorado. I think the price might be a little low, but American customs are all over the place. Mr. Ottmar's work seems to be quite revered. I would not particularly care to own a 375 without open sights, but if I had money to invest, I think it would be a sound investment. People buy art just to look at. If I had more money than sense, I would buy this rifle put it on the wall behind glass in the off season. It's just that lovely.

18 December 2015, 09:59

montea6b

Link to rifle ad: Ottmar rifle

18 December 2015, 20:41

fla3006

Tom Burgess did a lot of Ottmar's metal work.

18 December 2015, 21:39

lee440

"Monte Carlo Cheekpiece" my ass. You would expect the manager of the fine gun room would have more knowledge of the high end product he is paid to peddle.

18 December 2015, 23:04

FMC

quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
In most cases, Cabela's prices are quite high. This rifle was among around 80 rifles bought from a collector here in Colorado. I think the price might be a little low, but American customs are all over the place. Mr. Ottmar's work seems to be quite revered. I would not particularly care to own a 375 without open sights, but if I had money to invest, I think it would be a sound investment. People buy art just to look at. If I had more money than sense, I would buy this rifle put it on the wall behind glass in the off season. It's just that lovely.

I highlighted some things.

Custom rifles are a terrible investment. Frankly, safe queens that have only been shot once or twice (in general) depreciate horrendously and can be had for pennies on the dollar (even up to 50% or so).

I like the lines on that rifle, but it is what I'd consider a second tier custom. More of a shooter, but not really a safe queen. The wood is nice, but nothing spectacular. No contrasting fore end, which is not a question of taste, rather a ("blue book" if you will) missing option. And for all practical purpose no metal work to speak of (knob yes, 3 pos not really- SOP really)- no sights, just some Talley's chunked on as an afterthought.

I don't know how much Ottmar's name is worth? It's still overpriced by $2K IMO (definitely too close to sticker), even if you add the name. (Not a question of replacement value as we are talking about a used custom rifle.)

Beautiful lines though. Again a shooter, just not all that and a bag of chips.

18 December 2015, 23:44

custombolt

Not to rain on anyone's parade but after looking over it a while, a fair auction value popped into my head. The lines are nicely done. But $2,800 to $3,200 seems like an auction value for what features/wood quality it has including Ottmar's name. Sorry.

19 December 2015, 00:10

nyrifleman

I own an Ottmar stocked rifle on Pete Grisel's custom Mauser action.

After watching the price of a plain jane Dakota 76 go up to the 10k mark, I would be hard pressed to let it go foright less than $7500.

19 December 2015, 05:46

Toomany Tools

Nice rifle. Recoil pad very poorly done.

19 December 2015, 06:19

custombolt

Well Duane, I'm not trying to dilute anyone's talents. On the contrary, I'm a huge fan and search for Mr. Ottmar's rifles frequently. Same with your work and several others. As for the subject rifle, my auction value could be a little light on it. I'm still under $4K. I guess the wood and the bluing work isn't to my liking. But, then I must admit I didn't hold it in my hand as Matt had.
Hey Matt. If you like it that much, treat yourself. Life is too short. You earned the money. Buy, what you want.

Doug,
Dakota's can be nice. But, I think your DSB small ring Ottmar-Grisel is another/higher class. Even though I've never seen it or photos of it (hint hint), I consider it quite a find simply based on Maurice Ottmar's talent and also the added attraction of Pete's true double square bridge small ring action.

quote:
Originally posted by nyrifleman:
I own an Ottmar stocked rifle on Pete Grisel's custom Mauser action.

After watching the price of a plain jane Dakota 76 go up to the 10k mark, I would be hard pressed to let it go foright less than $7500.

19 December 2015, 08:36

Idaho Sharpshooter

I am not sure you could buy a blank like that for much, if any, under $1000; and the work is very well done.

The customer may have wanted something a bit more useful than many of the safe queens being done today.

This, to me, looks more like a real take it hunting rifle. Very nice, but not overly ornate.

I would really like to own it. And yes, it would go hunting with me every year.

Rich

19 December 2015, 09:00

Grenadier

And thus we see the value of second-hand custom rifles. To the man who views it as especially appealing it is worth substantially more than to the man who sees nothing special in it. High value on the one end, low value on the other end, and little interest in-between.

19 December 2015, 10:28

Idaho Sharpshooter

I keep looking at this rifle. It looks more and more like the Limb-Saver was an add-on.

Ottmar would not have let that rifle out of his shop looking like that.

Grenadier,

you are correct.

19 December 2015, 20:19

custombolt

Yes. Here's another nice rifle a bit north of $5k.
Custom rifle.

I like the wood better. However, Matt may like the wood on his .375 better.

quote:
Originally posted by Grenadier:
And thus we see the value of second-hand custom rifles. To the man who views it as especially appealing it is worth substantially more than to the man who sees nothing special in it. High value on the one end, low value on the other end, and little interest in-between.

19 December 2015, 22:11

ColoradoMatt

quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I keep looking at this rifle. It looks more and more like the Limb-Saver was an add-on.

Ottmar would not have let that rifle out of his shop looking like that.

That was my impression as well.

19 December 2015, 23:11

LJS

I still think it is a beaut and underpriced. Mr Ottmar had a dislike for contrasting forends and often encouraged customers to forego them. It is rare you will see one of his stocked guns with a contrasting forend. I would be proud to own it.

20 December 2015, 00:03

mightymouse

I've seen a couple of Maurice Ottmar's rifles close-up (one of them with metal work by Tom Burgess), and I don't think that .375 is over-priced. Ottmar's work is generally well done, beautiful, and functional, without being gaudy.

20 December 2015, 00:56

nyrifleman

quote:
Originally posted by custombolt:
Doug,
Dakota's can be nice. But, I think your DSB small ring Ottmar-Grisel is another/higher class. Even though I've never seen it or photos of it (hint hint), I consider it quite a find simply based on Maurice Ottmar's talent and also the added attraction of Pete's true double square bridge small ring action.

I'd be happy to share pics if someone here would be good enough to post them.

20 December 2015, 03:30

custombolt

Doug, I would be honored. Check your PM's for my email address and thanks.

20 December 2015, 04:27

custombolt

nyrifleman's custom by Maurice Ottmar.

20 December 2015, 04:32

nyrifleman

Thank you custombolt.

The action is, of course, a DSB small ring Mauser by Pete Grisel. The rings are custom by Grisel as well.

The stock isn't flashy, but has good figure throughout. The barrel is inscribed with Ottmar's name.

A tad over 8 lbs 1oz with the Leupold VX3 3.5-10.

She's a shooter too. 130 grain Partitions routinely group 5/8" at 3100 FPS over 60.0 grains of H4831SC.

20 December 2015, 04:41

dave wesbrook

CB,

You were recently trying to sell a factory made Blaser (with a badly pitted chamber) for $5900. Since you don't even know enough to wipe down a rifle that had been soaked in the rain I would suggest that your pricing of the Ottmar didn't just pop into your head, it popped out of your ignorant ass.

David L. Wesbrook

20 December 2015, 05:34

custombolt

No problem Doug. Nice rifle. QUOTE]Originally posted by nyrifleman:
Thank you custombolt.

The action is, of course, a DSB small ring Mauser by Pete Grisel. The rings are custom by Grisel as well.

The stock isn't flashy, but has good figure throughout. The barrel is inscribed with Ottmar's name.

A tad over 8 lbs 1oz with the Leupold VX3 3.5-10.

She's a shooter too. 130 grain Partitions routinely group 5/8" at 3100 FPS over 60.0 grains of H4831SC.[/QUOTE]

21 December 2015, 01:23

FMC

Mr. Wiebe, not trivializing the quality. On the contrary when I read Ottmar and saw the pic I was disappointed. Reminded me of a c. 1970s Columbo episode:

Columbo: ~~"Commodore's watch~~ Ottmar rifle."
Swammy "T'isn't."
Columbo""Tisn't....it isn't....it is not the ~~"Commodore's watch~~ an Ottmar rifle."

Now we see an Ottmar. Projectionless make the rifle sexier IMO. Nice rifle. Nice.

An Ottmar in 375 H&H with no quarter rib, no island, not even a fn barrel band......only afterthought add on Talleys...for the love of Christ...

That rifle is a donor that needs $2000 worth of metal work. I do love the lines. But that barreled action belongs in a McMillan stock.

I have no problem if someone paid $5 and put in the $2K or so that it needs to make it right. But I wouldn't pay $5K for that as a donor- that wood does nothing for me.

PS I have a major pet peeve when someone puts off the shelf Talley's on a custom rifle in lieu of someone of your (et al's) talents. I mean why? You're having some of the most talented metal smiths on the planet working on your rifle. Why the fuck would you not want them to use their creativity for some bad-ass bases? It is just wrong. I am offended for you/all y'all whenever I see that.

21 December 2015, 05:36

ColoradoMatt

quote:
Originally posted by FMC:
Mr. Wiebe, not trivializing the quality. On the contrary when I read Ottmar and saw the pic I was disappointed. Reminded me of a c. 1970s Columbo episode:

Columbo: ~~"Commodore's watch~~ Ottmar rifle."
Swammy "T'isn't."
Columbo""Tisn't....it isn't....it is not the ~~"Commodore's watch~~ an Ottmar rifle."

Now we see an Ottmar. Projectionless make the rifle sexier IMO. Nice rifle. Nice.

An Ottmar in 375 H&H with no quarter rib, no island, not even a fn barrel band......only afterthought add on Talleys...for the love of Christ...

That rifle is a donor that needs $2000 worth of metal work. I do love the lines. But that barreled action belongs in a McMillan stock.

I have no problem if someone paid $5 and put in the $2K or so that it needs to make it right. But I wouldn't pay $5K for that as a donor- that wood does nothing for me.

PS I have a major pet peeve when someone puts off the shelf Talley's on a custom rifle in lieu of someone of your (et al's) talents. I mean why? You're having some of the most talented metal smiths on the planet working on your rifle. Why the fuck would you not want them to use their creativity for some bad-ass bases? It is just wrong. I am offended for you/all y'all whenever I see that.

HORSEFEATHERS! IMO

21 December 2015, 06:24

Gatogordo

quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
quote:
Originally posted by FMC:
Mr. Wiebe, not trivializing the quality. On the contrary when I read Ottmar and saw the pic I was disappointed. Reminded me of a c. 1970s Columbo episode:

Columbo: ~~"Commodore's watch~~ Ottmar rifle."
Swammy "T'isn't."
Columbo""Tisn't....it isn't....it is not the ~~"Commodore's watch~~ an Ottmar rifle."

Now we see an Ottmar. Projectionless make the rifle sexier IMO. Nice rifle. Nice.

An Ottmar in 375 H&H with no quarter rib, no island, not even a fn barrel band......only afterthought add on Talleys...for the love of Christ...

That rifle is a donor that needs $2000 worth of metal work. I do love the lines. But that barreled action belongs in a McMillan stock.

I have no problem if someone paid $5 and put in the $2K or so that it needs to make it right. But I wouldn't pay $5K for that as a donor- that wood does nothing for me.

PS I have a major pet peeve when someone puts off the shelf Talley's on a custom rifle in lieu of someone of your (et al's) talents. I mean why? You're having some of the most talented metal smiths on the planet working on your rifle. Why the fuck would you not want them to use their creativity for some bad-ass bases? It is just wrong. I am offended for you/all y'all whenever I see that.

HORSEFEATHERS! IMO

X 2

Why pay for all those useless extras if you don't want/like them?

xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.

22 December 2015, 04:58

Chuck Nelson

quote:
Originally posted by FMC:
quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
In most cases, Cabela's prices are quite high. This rifle was among around 80 rifles bought from a collector here in Colorado. I think the price might be a little low, but American customs are all over the place. Mr. Ottmar's work seems to be quite revered. I would not particularly care to own a 375 without open sights, but if I had money to invest, I think it would be a sound investment. People buy art just to look at. If I had more money than sense, I would buy this rifle put it on the wall behind glass in the off season. It's just that lovely.

I highlighted some things.

Custom rifles are a terrible investment. Frankly, safe queens that have only been shot once or twice (in general) depreciate horrendously and can be had for pennies on the dollar (even up to 50% or so).

I like the lines on that rifle, but it is what I'd consider a second tier custom. More of a shooter, but not really a safe queen. The wood is nice, but nothing spectacular. No contrasting fore end, which is not a question of taste, rather a ("blue book" if you will) missing option. And for all practical purpose no metal work to speak of (knob yes, 3 pos not really- SOP really)- no sights, just some Talley's chunked on as an afterthought.

I don't know how much Ottmar's name is worth? It's still overpriced by $2K IMO (definitely too close to sticker), even if you add the name. (Not a question of replacement value as we are talking about a used custom rifle.)

Beautiful lines though. Again a shooter, just not all that and a bag of chips.

IMO they don't come a whole lot nicer. That is my idea of what a real rifle should look like. Beautiful.

22 December 2015, 04:59

Chuck Nelson

quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
We do not know what the order sheet for that rifle specified. We can't know what was stripped off.

A friend/client has 26 African hunts under his belt including big5. He has no use for iron sights and will not have them on his rifles.

That doesn't make then "second tier" just makes them built to order.

This Ottmar rifle is priced below the cost of the stock alone, and the wise buyer would invest another couple thou and have a stunning rifle for less than 50% of a new order

Do I ever agree!