Here are a few pictures of a W. Collath 8x57 Mauser sporter that I have. This rifle has the pre 1912 proof on the side of the receiver, but if you notice it was restamped at one time from 2.67gGBP to 2.45gGBP. The rifle had a claw mount dovetailed into the top of the front receiver ring when I got it that was added sometime after the rifle was made, so I don't know if it had to be reproofed when that was added or why the proof was changed. The rifle also has a pre 1905 firing pin and cocking piece, but has the later bolt shroud with the lock on it. I will post pictures of the markings on the bottom of the barrel and receiver, maybe someone can tell me what they mean. There is no Mauser serial number on the bottom of the receiver or back of the magazine box. The double set triggers were added to the guard not part of it.

Very classic! And, very nice!

That is a very interesting rifle. Nice!

Nice rifle and thanks for the pics.

Striker and striker nut is of pre 98 (transitional) design.

Bolt body and shroud show standard 98 configuration.

Don´t believe that the action is of commercial Oberndorf origin.

lovely rifle!

What you have there is quite a rare piece because it is a Wilhelm Collath and he produced guns only for a short period of time.

Perhaps a window of only 6 years.

Collath died in 1907 and before he died the company was absorbed by Techner and the markings on their guns and ammunition changed.

As to the change in the regulation marking this could get interesting because Collath designed two rimmed 8mm's of his own and it would be interesting to see a chamber casting of this rifles chamber. It could be that originally it was a 8x57 R Collath or 8X58 R Collath. The case was basically a shortened Brtitish 360 express and though it was rimmed it was not uncommon to see mausers chambered for rimmed cartridges allbeit with modification to the magazine well and follower.

quote:

What you have there is quite a rare piece because it is a Wilhelm Collath and he produced guns only for a short period of time.

Perhaps a window of only 6 years.

Collath died in 1907 and before he died the company was absorbed by Techner and the markings on their guns and ammunition changed.

As to the change in the regulation marking this could get interesting because Collath designed two rimmed 8mm's of his own and it would be interesting to see a chamber casting of this rifles chamber. It could be that originally it was a 8x57 R Collath or 8X58 R Collath. The case was basically a shortened Brtitish 360 express and though it was rimmed it was not uncommon to see mausers chambered for rimmed cartridges allbeit with modification to the magazine well and follower.

I love it when I see an ALF response to a Mauser thread!

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
What you have there is quite a rare piece because it is a Wilhelm Collath and he produced guns only for a short period of time.

Perhaps a window of only 6 years.

Collath died in 1907 and before he died the company was absorbed by Techner and the markings on their guns and ammunition changed.

To my knowledge Wilhelm Collath entered the G.Teschner & Co Gewehrfabrik in 1855 as an apprentice. And he became the later owner of the Teschner company

heavenknows,

how do you determine that the striker nut is pre 98 (transitional) design.

I understand the striker/firing pin as pre 98 without the safety shoulders.
Thanks
Bob

heavenknows:

I have that too but the markings on the guns and ammunition reflect when Collath "was boss" if you wish this was for a short period only.

After his death in 1906 the company carried on but the markings on both ammo and guns no longer was just W Collath and Sohne but now had Techner attached. RWS loaded their ammo and the headstamps on the cases reflected this.

They built shotguns, Singles, drillings and the typical array of German hunting guns we commonly see.

manhasset

The bolt open hold cock is triangular shaped.
The peak normally rested in a tiny slot of the bolt body to prevent rotating of the bolt sleeve.(In a true transitional pre 98 ensemble) and the sleeve was without a lock plunger.
The lock plunger was later added as consistent construction part of the 98 sleeve.
The lack of the safety shoulder on the firing pin was found on pre 98 as well as on a few very early 98 mausers ( and on the very end of WWII military productions)

Thank You all for the replies and the kind words. I have enjoyed this rifle for many years and thought the group here would enjoy seeing it. Thanks again.

Heavenknows, Thanks for the replies. The date I posted, pre 1905, on the on the firing pin type this rifle has came from Ludwig Olsen's book on Mausers. It is the only resource that I have, but I'm going by memory as my nephew has my copy right now. I was thinking that he showed the patents on the safety firing pin and the bolt sleeve with the bolt sleeve lock, and the bolt sleeve lock preceded the safety firing pin a very short while. Again I'm going by memory . I guess in saying that I'm assuming that my action was made during the transition and all the parts are original to it. Is that your belief as well? The bolt does have the small knotch in the back edge for the point of the cocking piece to drop into. The gas holes in the bottom of the bolt are slotted the same as the bolts for the safety firing pin, but they are only .123" wide, or about .100" narrower than a later bolt that I measured. A safety firing pin will work in this bolt but there are no internal lugs to stop the firing pin fall if it drops before the bolt is closed. You mentioned that you didn't believe this action was an Oberndorf Comercial action. Was it from a military rifle or did Collath or some other manufacturer make the action? It was my understanding that Mauser patents were still valid and military actions were nonexistant at that time, so Mauser Oberndorf was the only source for these actions. As I said my research has been pretty limited, so I may not be correct. Thanks Again for your replies, they have been helpful. I would like to learn all I can about this rifle.

ALF, Thank You for your replies. I don't know anything about W. Collath, and I have never seen another Mauser rifle by him. All I've been able to find are shotguns and drillings. I'm sure there more out there I'm just not looking in the right places. This rifle is 7.92x57 caliber. I've had this rifle almost 20 years. I was doing repair work for a local gunshop when this and another Mauser sporter came in to the shop. The shop owner didn't know what caliber either one was so I did a chamber cast on both of them. They both were 7.92x57. I fell in love with this one so I traded a no. 1A Ruger and $200.00 for it if I remember correctly. I figured I could always replace the Ruger, but I would probably never find another Mauser like this one here. This rifle is very accurate. My son worked up a load,48.1 grIMR 4350 and 220gr Sierra spitzer gameking, that hits about 1" high at 100yds to the fixed sights. The scope bases in the picture are the ones I took off the rifle. The rifle doesn't carry well with the front base on it so I removed it and fitted a filler block to the receiver ring. I didn'nt have much hope of ever finding a scope to fit it. I can always put them back on if I do. So this rifle was probably made toward the end of Collath's career? Do you know the meaning of the markings on the bottom flat of the barrel? Looks like a circle RS and E3B in script. Thank You Again for you help.

Wilhelm Collath was located at Frankfurt on the Oder river (the little Frankfort ;-)) started in 1838 by Teschner run later by Collath. After his death (1906) the firm was run by his sons (Sohne)Franz and Paul. The firm was active into the late twenties and possibly the 30's.

In my (undated) catalog they do show the 98 Mauser sporter.

Nice rifle.....

You might look for an online proof mark list, the German government opened a proof house at Frankfurt just for Collath but I don't know if the proofs are any different.

Michael Petrov, Thank You for the reply. I was wondering if the Frankfort A.O. on the barrel was Frankfort am Oder. I compared the proof marks on this rifle with the proof marks in the 1975 Gun Digest article on German proof marks and they look the same as the marks used from 1893 until after this rifle was made. I will check online though, it may give more or differant info. Would there be any way you could post a picture of the 98 sporter in your catalog? I would love to see it. Thanks again for the reply and kind words.

Michael, Thank You for posting the picture of the Collath catalog. I need to learn to read German. It is very interesting. Would the Mod.88/9mm be 9x57? Thanks Again!

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Poley:
Michael, Thank You for posting the picture of the Collath catalog. I need to learn to read German. It is very interesting. Would the Mod.88/9mm be 9x57? Thanks Again!

Your welcome, you only need to read German if you continue to collect German guns ;-).

I think the 88 8&9 were both 57mm long but recommend a chamber cast on any unknown rifle.