Abrams Tank Round

13 June 2003, 14:19

LongDistanceOperator

Abrams Tank Round

Can we leave politics out of this discussion, please?

Soory, but I don't have a photo of the troop target that I shot with a Sabot. I left my digital camera in Austin when I was on Leave. I'll ask if any buddies have a camera.

14 June 2003, 18:31

<FarRight>

Like...damn [Eek!]

15 June 2003, 04:29

tasco 74

I THINK I SAW WHERE YOU COULD BUY ONE OF THE PROJECTILES FROM CHEAPER THAN DIRT CATALOG OR ONE OF THE OTHER CATALOGS.

EVERY TIME I GET A CHANCE TO SEE THESE MODERN MARVELS ON THE HISTORY CHANNEL I MAKE SURE AND WATCH IT.

CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE TO SEE A ROUND LIKE THAT HIT A HUMAN TARGET? I WONDER IF THERE WOULD BE ANY DNA LEFT TO TELL WHO IT WAS.

15 June 2003, 04:36

120mm

I have seen the 120mm practice round hit a variety of God's fuzzy little creatures, and it ain't pretty. For some, godawful reason, critters are drawn to the downrange targets at night and like to eat, there. I've seen a BIG wild boar at Grafenwoehr hit by 120 with a "Texas Heart Shot". He was a lot longer and kind of 'hollow'. I guess you'd say he was a 'shell' of himself. I've also seen Red Dear hit broadside, which resulted in the front legs straight up and the hind legs stretched out, and he was gutted, skinned and cleaned in one brief moment.

15 June 2003, 05:49

tasco 74

120 MM WHERE YOU FROM? I'M JUST SO OF FT DODGE.

15 June 2003, 09:34

120mm

I'm FROM Varina area. I'm supposed to be living in Newton, where my wife and children keep the faith. I'm currently living in Balad, Iraq, home of the latest infantry vs. tank ambush went tragically wrong for the infantry.

Where, south of Fort Dodge?

15 June 2003, 12:13

tasco 74

IT'S A SMALL TOWN 20 MI. SO OF FT DODGE. MY FRIEND WHO HAS A WELDING SHOP HERE IN TOWN WAS IN IRAQ IN 91.HE BROUGHT HOME SOME KIND HUGE ARTILLERY SHELL.

THE 2ND AMENDMENT DOSEN'T PROTECT IRAQI AMBUSHERS VERY WELL........

STAY SAFE,COME HOME ALIVE, THANKS FOR BEING THERE ......

16 June 2003, 12:49

120mm

No problem

17 June 2003, 14:02

kevral

Heard this from a guy I used to know, who was a Leopard I commander in the Norwegian Army:

They were being sent out on the firing range in the mountains early one morning with a tankload of old 105mm White Phosphorus rounds to use up. Three things one needs to understand about this situation if one is not Norwegian: Norwegian tank commanders are usually straight out of one-year's officers academy and not career officers; the tank gunnery range in question is on the Dovre mountain massif; and on Dovre lives musk-oxen.

According to the guy I know, who was on one of the three lead tanks, this big bull oxen just plain disappeared.

30 June 2003, 22:17

Karl

Just one one of the figures quoted for the Du penetrator.
The temperature at impact of 1 million degrees?
Are you sure that is correct as that is atomic bomb/centre of star type temperature isn't it?

Karl.

14 July 2003, 22:30

Karl

Just found a scientific report on the net claiming 1800 degrees at impact.

Karl.

15 July 2003, 14:13

120mm

The DU penetrator works on a purely kinetic principle, not heat. The HEAT round uses chemical energy to create a very hot self-forging projectile. I think we're a little confused on this issue, here.

Oxyacetylene torches burn at 6500-8500 degrees and take quite awhile to burn through armor.

15 July 2003, 20:35

Tony Williams

quote:
Originally posted by 120mm:
The DU penetrator works on a purely kinetic principle, not heat. The HEAT round uses chemical energy to create a very hot self-forging projectile. I think we're a little confused on this issue, here.

Umm - HEAT creates a jet of molten metal, self-forging projectiles are rather different; a solid slug is created.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

02 August 2003, 02:29

1894

quote:
Originally posted by 120mm:
The DU penetrator works on a purely kinetic principle, not heat. The HEAT round uses chemical energy to create a very hot self-forging projectile. I think we're a little confused on this issue, here.

Oxyacetylene torches burn at 6500-8500 degrees and take quite awhile to burn through armor.

The kinetic energy of the penetrator insantly melts the armour at the point of impact. If you look at the entrance 'wound' you will see that the armour has melted.

02 August 2003, 05:49

tasco 74

SEEMS LIKE I SAW ONE OF THOSE PROJECTILES IN A CHEAPER THAN DIRT CATALOG OR SOMETHING JUST LATELY........

03 August 2003, 16:53

120mm

Tony and 1894 - You are both technically correct, but... There are two kinds of self-forging projectiles, both of which work on the same principle. The HEAT round may be molten when it enters the armor, but then it is forged by the focus of the explosive cone. Thus, "self-forging". This differs from various "top-attack" projectiles which, instead of travelling down the channel of the probe and contact the armor in their molten state, are launched through the air and strike the top armor, (where it is thinnest) as a solid projectile. Both are, (at least to the US Army) considered self-forging projectiles. Oh, and the top attack weapons, like the TOW IIB are also considered as High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT).

As far as SABOT is concerned, I understand a lot of heat is created by impact, but I seriously doubt the heat can travel fast enough to precede the kinetic energy of impact. What you are seeing with the "melted" edges of the armor breech occurs after the projectile has penetrated. I have seen multiple instances of Sabot penetration that have resulted in a square hole, with angular spalling, which indicates linear failure of the metallic crystal structure, without the accompanying heat in evidence.