Re: Bought a new one to celebrate-FN-49

07 November 2004, 15:34

covey16

Browning guy

I don't know how familiar you are with FN 49, but I would avoid 8mm Turkish or any other hot loaded 8mm. FN 49's aren't that strong and have a reputation for occasional radical disassembly.

There's a reason the FAL followed fairly close on the heels of the FN 49.

The Greek 8mm is reasonably mild.

Covey16

Ps

Was it made for Egypt or in Egypt,as I remember,the Hakim is an fn49 made in Egypt under license.

07 November 2004, 16:12

Rusty

Comgratulations on the new rifle!

08 November 2004, 03:32

exercion

"Was it made for Egypt or in Egypt,as I remember,the Hakim is an fn49 made in Egypt under license.

Actually the Hakim is a modified Swedish Ljungman built in Egypt.

Eric

08 November 2004, 04:12

covey16

Exercion
Your absolutely correct.
Don't get old, the memory is the first thing to go.

Covey16

08 November 2004, 04:44

browningguy

Thanks guys, I did a lot of reading up on them before deciding on the FN49 and learned about the hot ammo problems. I found some surplus from SOG that they say is non-corrosive and will work fine in the FN so we'll see how that goes. Just sent my C&R off yesterday so probably be 1-2 weeks before it gets here.

After I get this one maybe try to find a 7mm or 30'06, has anyone shot one of the Argentine Navy models that SOG has yet?

12 November 2004, 14:51

browningguy

Thanks for all the info guys. I kind of worried that most of the milsurp would be corrosive so plan to clean as if it's corrosive no matter what they sell it as. Ammo arrived today, just waiting ont he rifle now.

Thanks,

15 November 2004, 10:12

covey16

Despite warnings,I shot many rounds of high brass 12ga thru a nice LC Smith I inherited right up until the day a 4 inch chunk of the left barrel departed.
Old guns should be used for what they are, which is not a test bed for crappy or overloaded ammo.

I've seen several case head separations and 2 frozen bolts from shooting Turkish in WW2 era 98's.

Not an expert here,but there's better 8mm milsurp arround than Turkish.

Jumptrap
If you've got a .223 match rifle , I hear Wolf Ammo is outstanding.

Covey16

16 November 2004, 06:03

Jumptrap

Covey,

That was cute. I'll be coming to Spring in the next few weeks, maybe we can get together and you can introduce me to all those folks who have suffered so many problems and perhaps you can display your collection of fine arms to me.

I tried to tell you, all this Turk ammo is a Muslim conspiracy. I heard the 7.65 pistol ammo they surplused is loaded with C4.

18 November 2004, 08:21

covey16

Quote:

Covey,

That was cute. I'll be coming to Spring in the next few weeks, maybe we can get together and you can introduce me to all those folks who have suffered so many problems and perhaps you can display your collection of fine arms to me.

I tried to tell you, all this Turk ammo is a Muslim conspiracy. I heard the 7.65 pistol ammo they surplused is loaded with C4.

Jumptrap
The experiences I described were observed at a local rifle range in Houston, one in Beaumont and at an impromptu range in the Davey Crockett National Forest over several years.
None of the people involved were friends.
I did loan one guy a piece of pipe to get his bolt open.
All were 98's and all had one thing in common,
Turkish ammo.
I drew my own conclusions.

As far as my guns, I don't know that any would be considered "fine" but they all function and serve their purpose.
One is a BRNO 98 which I've had since 1965.
It has never passed a round of Turk and never will.

You shoot what you want and I'll shoot what I want .

This forum is about opinion and experience,you have mine.

If the comment about Wolf ammo was offensive then you have my apology, but I shoot AR 15's and find parallels to this thread.

Covey16

23 November 2004, 09:29

befus

Quote:

browningguy,

Then by all means don't buy (let alone SHOOT) any of the Turkish ammo. The 'authority' has spoken. However, when my 2800 round stash has been consumed, I'll take a picture of what remains of my FN49 and post it here. I am willing to bet it will still be in one piece and none the worse for wear. I have only been at this game a short while...say 30 years give or take a couple, and I still stand agape at the vast knowledge so freely espoused here by the authorities.In those few short years, I have managed to own a few military rifles..say a 150 or so

Well, nice to read a well thought out reply. This is not about YOU, it's about others. And yes I am an authority, so thanks. I have considerably in excess of the 150 rifles you mention in my collection at this time and have owned dozens of others over the years. Turkish ammo may work for you, please don't tell others it is fine ammo as it is not. I spoke with Dennis Kroh, owner of Empire Arms, at the recent Tulsa show and he told me of three MG42 full auto machine guns that were totally ruined by this ammo. I post quotes from the semi-auto board at Gunboards.com, and yes they are authorities too.
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It's generally becoming accepted that the Turk is loaded with a powder that has a burning rate that is too slow for gas guns, resulting in too high a pressure at the gas port. Chamber pressure and that pressure curve also come into play because if the gas port pressure is high, resulting in faster than normal operation of the gas piston, AND the chamber pressure is still up, THEN the case is still gripping the chamber walls . . . you start to get extraction problems or worse, potentially up to case head separations (with resulting rifle damage, and potentially shooter injury). A slow powder tends to result in high pressures in the chamber AND at the gas port. In addition, some lots of the Turk just seem to be very erratic with shot-to-shot pressure variations and with a significant number of misfires.

Some folks have shot 1000's of rounds of Turk in a gas gun with NO problems . . . . . BUT some have not been so lucky and have reported problems ranging from functioning problems, to broken extractors, all the way up to KBs. Some people may be successfully shooting this ammo in THEIR FN-49s due to variables in the gas piston to gas cylinder fit, return (recoil) spring strength, etc. Other rifles just won't tolerate it. You can try opening the gas port ALL the way and then adjust down to get proper functioning, but if you notice violent ejection or other signs of too high a gas port pressure, then that ammo is NOT compatible with YOUR rifle.

The designers of gas-operated semi-automatic guns engineer the gas system around a certain ammunition specification consisting of bullet weight, powder burning rate, and other variables, in order to achieve a certain pressure at the gas port that will operate the mechanism. The FN-49, as you know, does have an adjustable gas system allowing an armorer to fine-tune the rifles to a particular country's ammo specification or to adjust for variables in ammunition manufacturing lots. However, these adjustments were never intended to enable the rifle to shoot any ammo, of any pressure curve and bullet weight.

This is just sorta a fact of life that semi-auto shooters have to work with. Handloaders take these factors into consideration every time they begin the powder selection process for working up loads. People that purchase factory ammunition (or, in this case, 50-60 year old military surplus ammo) need to give consideration to this factor as well.

One thing you might want to ask yourself is . . . . what gas-operated, semi-auto rifle did the Turks shoot this ammo in . . . . . . .. the answer is NONE! They shot it in bolt rifles.
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I made it through 19 rounds of 1953 dated Turkish ammo before I realized this ammo was trying to demolish my SAFN and reconfigure my fat face. I saved the brass around here somewhere as proof that this was a close call for me...to remind me not to do stupid things like this in the future. Soon after I fired this string the first reports of exploding gas operated rifles being fired with Turkish surplus ammo began to emerge. I got off easy..others have not.
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About a year ago I started a thread, "Ammo Hall of Shame." One of the first items posted was the unsuitability of Turk Mauser ammo for any semi-auto rifles. Turk ammo is inconsistent and at times ridiculously hot. The cheapness of Turk ammo is not enough justification for the destruction of either ones firearm and/or face.
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The G-41 is made of excellent metal and is safe to shoot. The G-43 series of rifles have quality problems. Shoot original WWII 8mm through it and you will have no problems. Some other 8mm works too, but beware of Turkish 8mm, it is too powerfull to shoot because the chamber pressures are dangerous. Use Turk ammo in Mauser rifles only.
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If you get the Hakim, do not make the mistake of using the cheap Turkish ammo in it......too many reports of KB's using that ammo in the Hakim.