AR semi-autos

18 November 2002, 19:28

<FarRight>

AR semi-autos

How reliable is the AR-15? I've heard mixed reports. Some say they are crap, some say they are fine, soome say they used to be crap but are fine now. I want to know if you would ever trust your life to an AR-15 made by say...Bushmaster?

19 November 2002, 20:19

<.>

Yeah, if it's clean.

But the AK-47 will function even if it's full of dirt.

20 November 2002, 09:22

m700

I have trusted my life to Colt's M-16. I've put literally tens of thousands of rounds through various AR-15's and M-16's with very, very few problems. The problems I've had stemmed from either poor quality ammo, or beat up old magazines which I should have replaced before I did. Since leaving the Corps, I got my department to go with Colt AR-15's in all the patrol cars. I'm biased towards Colt and recently went through the Colt Armorer's course, which only cemented that bias - the Colt rifles are held to pretty high standards.

Several different companies make AR-15 type rifles which are excellent for target competition, but I can't say that any I've seen are better than Colt for combat conditions. Keep 'em clean and feed 'em quality ammo and they'll do just fine. For what it's worth, Guy

[ 11-19-2002, 13:54: Message edited by: m700 ]

20 November 2002, 04:43

KevinNY

I shoot 2 different uppers in Service rifle competition and practice and have fired over 10000 rounds without a jam or misfire over the last 3 years.

20 November 2002, 05:29

<RickMD>

I have a Bushmaster with over 3000 rounds through it. It has never misfired...........

20 November 2002, 05:35

<RickMD>

Genghis:

You're right that an AK will fire when it's full of dirt. Most AK's strain to group 4"-6" at 100 yards while a good AR-15 will easily shoot an inch.

They are in no way similar firearms.

20 November 2002, 11:29

<FarRight>

How often do you guys clean your ARs or how often would you say you have to before you start experiencing problems.

20 November 2002, 12:20

KevinNY

I clean mine every time I shoot (at least 50 rounds ) or weekly when I'm really practicing alot in summer maybe 2-300 rounds sometimes. Never could say that accuracy fell off, or problems developed when dirty though.

21 November 2002, 03:16

Eric Ansgar

The ARs that are sold today are VERY reliable. If you drop them in the dirt or feed them dirty, dented, or corroded ammo they will give problems JUST LIKE ANY OTHER FIREARM - AKs included. IMHO those who badmouth the AR have never owned one and are passing on old stories. There were some early problems (mostly cracked gas tubes) but the GIs who used them also had to be trained on maintaining them. I've carried and used an M-16 made by Harrington&Richardson and owned Oympia, Bushmaster ARs and now shoot a Colt - no problems and I like(d) all of them. Would I trust my life to an AR/M16 - yes I would, and did....

22 November 2002, 05:44

<Sam>

I'd trust my Rock River any time. As far as cleaning goes I run a boresnake through it after I'm done for the day (50 - 100 rounds). I haven't put a rod down it since I bought it last December. I take down the bolt about every six months and clean and relube it (400 - 600 rounds). Most of the crap stories go back to the original M-16 and early A1's.

23 November 2002, 07:37

moon

Is a person better off to buy a complete rifle or buy parts and assemble ??? I sure would like one,my last semi was the Garand Thanks [Wink]

23 November 2002, 07:56

Bill M

quote:
Originally posted by moon:
Is a person better off to buy a complete rifle or buy parts and assemble ???

If you only want one rifle, you might be better off buying the complete, assembled gun. The tools/gages required to put one together along with the cost of the kit will probably cost you more than an assembled rifle. I don't think it is as easy as it sounds. I would suggest that you get a book(s) on the subject and make a determination after some studying. I did see a book specifically on building an AR-15 from a kit, but don't recall the title or where I saw it [Confused]

.

Regards, Bill

23 November 2002, 08:05

Big Bore

Well I have them both, a VEPR II AK and two ARs, a Colt HBar and an Armalite M15-A4 (T). To be honest, I've never had any trouble out of any of them. I cannot remember ever having a FTF that was not do to a bad mag, AR and AK, and I have never had a FTE or a "click." I clean them when I am done shooting, sometimes it's 20 rounds, sometimes it 200 to 300 rounds. As to reliability I cannot see a difference, but the VEPR II is the cream of the crop when it comes to AK IMHO, and it will hold 1.5-2" groups with decent ammo, like Win. white box, and the ARs will hold about 1 to 1.5" with the same type of Win. white box ammo. Match grade through the AR will easily go 1/2" to 1" but I have not found any match grade 7.62x39 to see just how accurate the VEPR II really is, but I suspect it is much more accurate than is with the white-box ammo. Guess I need to work up a load for it and see how the puppy really shoots.

26 November 2002, 03:58

Bill M

Hello Moon,

Dillon Precision sells an American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI) video called "Building the AR-15 from a Kit". Might be worth watching if you are still considering building one.

Bill

20 December 2002, 19:17

<.>

quote:
Originally posted by RickMD:
Genghis:

You're right that an AK will fire when it's full of dirt. Most AK's strain to group 4"-6" at 100 yards while a good AR-15 will easily shoot an inch.

They are in no way similar firearms.

Yeah, but a man's head is about 6" ear to ear and you can keep slinging the lead until you hit it. [Big Grin]

I have a Romanian SAR 1 more or less out of the box stock.

Also have a Bushmaster, 16" floated H-bar, flat top, Redfield 6x scope, Jewell two stage trigger.

Not similar weapons at all. The AR probably has $1100 into it. The AK comes in at $350 most places.

The AR sits on the sandbags and gets fed a round at a time. The AK gets stowed behind the seat of the truck or hangs off the ladder rack.

When the fur flies, and I have the option, I'll probably grab the AR because of the scope and the accuracy. But I don't worry about bruising the AK, and so it's the one that gets hauled around ALL the time.

Just like I have a couple custom Springfield 1911's, and even carry them from time to time. But the Makarov at $150 gets tossed in the glove box or tackle box, or tool box, or in the kayak, or boat, or float tube.

[ 12-20-2002, 10:25: Message edited by: Genghis ]

25 December 2002, 19:22

<waldog>

I took the AR plunge some time back with a new Rock River. I have never looked back or regretted it in any way! I shot about 300 rounds straight before the action got sufficiently dirty to affect cycling. After a good scrub down and lube, it has not failed to chamber a round since. And one time I pushed almost 500 rounds through between cleanings with out trouble. As for accuracy, most anything out of it's varmint weight tube will shoot under an inch. Winchester white box, black hills, HSM, etc. It takes some pretty pathetic ammo to chage the POI any. I've been thrilled to own this gun!

26 December 2002, 06:19

Grizzly Adams

Hello Ghengis;
Yea, you might hit him eventually,if his buddy doesn't get you first, but you'll have a tought time reloading that brass. The ones I've seen and shot, [Chinese] just about bend the empties in half, when they come out.
Griz

29 December 2002, 11:01

SFC U.S. Army

If you want a reliable and accurate battle rifle go with the FN FAL

04 January 2003, 16:31

Craftsman

M700

Since you have attended the Colt armorer school maybe you could give us some tips on removing heavy deposits of carbon from the various areas of the AR-15 when they have been shot many hundreds of rounds without cleaning.

I've cleaned and serviced many AR-15's in the past but I have a couple in my shop to clean now that was used (abused) by a corrections department. The carbon build up is thick and rock hard. The normal solvents wont touch it. I'm having to scrape most of it off with hardwood dowels and chore boy pads. Any suggestions?

04 January 2003, 17:53

<El Viejo>

The AKs I have shot did good to group 5" at 50 yards. They are fun to shoot however, and the design is amazingly simple.

If it ever really hits the fan, however, you could (possibly) draw ammo from the National Guard for the AR, but probably not for the AK.

04 January 2003, 17:58

Orion 1

quote:
Originally posted by Craftsman:
M700

Since you have attended the Colt armorer school maybe you could give us some tips on removing heavy deposits of carbon from the various areas of the AR-15 when they have been shot many hundreds of rounds without cleaning.

I've cleaned and serviced many AR-15's in the past but I have a couple in my shop to clean now that was used (abused) by a corrections department. The carbon build up is thick and rock hard. The normal solvents wont touch it. I'm having to scrape most of it off with hardwood dowels and chore boy pads. Any suggestions?

Check out the Sinclair International website and get their catalog. They have several tools made specifically to scrape carbon off the various nooks and crannies inside the bolt and carrier.