Mousegun AAR

22 January 2003, 09:41

Russell E. Taylor

Mousegun AAR

After Action Report, 9mm Beretta Mousegun

=============

Well, just some observations.

Today, at a local indoor range, was the first time I've shot my Beretta 92. I had it refinished and had a barrel bushing installed. Some quick observations, then I'm off to work.

First, it's REAL tight. Between the bushing and the GunKote bake-on paint, there's no slop. I hate slop. Especially in guns.

Second, it shoots WAY better than my "issue" mousegun.

Third... DAY-AMN, I HAD NO IDEA HOW UNGODLY "SMALL" THIS 9MM MOUSE AMMO IS!!! You couldn't kill a FLY with this stuff! Damn NATO, damn NATO-influenced politics, and damn the people who caved in to said NATO influence and gave up the .45 ACP (with which you COULD kill people) for this piddly 9mm mousegun Beretta. I only bought mine to practice with, since I only see my "issue" gun once a year. Small bullets, small holes in the targets, small everything. Small BRASS, even! This, from a guy who shoots big handguns like .45 ACPs and .500 Linebaughs.

24 January 2003, 04:18

<Sam>

Hey Russel,
Tell us how you really feel about 9mm. Personally I agree with you. The only advantage to a 9 is mag capacity. Of course, you have to use two bullets on everything.

24 January 2003, 20:49

<.>

Prison guards will tell you, there's all sorts of "bad asses" in prison with 9mm wounds. The only place they see 45 ACP wounds is in the morgue.

Special Operations in the military are being issued the 1911 some more. SEALS, Special Forces, etc.

9mm is a notorious over-penetrator. Penetration is fine if the bullet stops in the target. But the 9mm has a bad habit of passing through the target and taking it's energy down range.

Bullets for the 9mm are .355" or so and 115 gr. Bullets for the 45 ACP are .451" or so and twice the weight at 230 gr. Velocity is a moot issue here. The energy developed by velocity is pointless if most of it passes out of the target and continues down range.

When I use 357 mag, I use 158 gr JHP. NATO won't let the military use a JHP, so you get a jacketed bullet making a small wound channel and passing through the target. That's not a formula for killing the enemy.

25 January 2003, 06:21

redial

I've often sat in emergency rooms writing the report of the evening's "victim of gun violence" while the docs pored over the X-rays trying to figure out which were new bullets and which were leftover from the victim's last trip to the emergency room.

They seem to collect and keep "9 mildimeeder" slugs as momentos.

Read what McBride wrote about a pistol's "wallop" some 80 years ago. Same story.

I will say in fairness that my Beretta ran through almost 14,000 rounds before I turned it in, and it NEVER, EVER, NOT ONCE jammed. Ever. Ate two barrels and three locking lugs, but WTF?

Redial

25 January 2003, 07:04

Orion 1

quote:
Originally posted by Genghis:
NATO won't let the military use a JHP.

That would be the Hague Convention, not the North Atlantic Treaty organization, MR. Brain Surgeon.

25 January 2003, 08:25

<.>

quote:
Originally posted by ksduckhunter:

quote:
Originally posted by Genghis:
NATO won't let the military use a JHP.
That would be the Hague Convention, not the North Atlantic Treaty organization, MR. Brain Surgeon.

We're using the 9mm as part of the NATO Alliance.

NATO won't let the military use JHP -- because of the Hague Convention.

You happy now?

Bite my ass, mother fucker. Spend more time reading and less time picking your butt.

[ 01-24-2003, 23:26: Message edited by: Genghis ]

25 January 2003, 10:28

Orion 1

quote:
Originally posted by Genghis:

quote:
Originally posted by ksduckhunter:

quote:
Originally posted by Genghis:
NATO won't let the military use a JHP.
That would be the Hague Convention, not the North Atlantic Treaty organization, MR. Brain Surgeon.
We're using the 9mm as part of the NATO Alliance.

NATO won't let the military use JHP -- because of the Hague Convention.

You happy now?

Bite my ass, mother fucker. Spend more time reading and less time picking your butt.

We've been signataries to the Hague Convention long before NATO existed. You are more stupid that I thought possible.

25 January 2003, 14:04

Russell E. Taylor

My time is SEVERELY limited these days, but I'm checking my E-mail and had messages that this thread had some more responses, so here I am to (briefly) respond.

We're taking a charter plane over and back. Our luggage will not be searched, scanned, felt-up, fondled, or anything else... except sent. Same coming back.

Which means... I could have taken my OWN Beretta mousegun, with the barrel bushing, tight no-slop slide, new finish, better trigger, cleaner sights, and excellent accuracy.

To think -- being able to take your own weapon into combat and bring it home again. Wow. Just like the old days (which, um, I guess would be the Civil War).

However... I'll be getting my POS full-of-slop mousegun. I was issued my holster and ONE magazine pouch -- which means, clearly, that I'll be allowed one magazine in the gun and ONE ("ONE") spare.

Look, I'm not a spray-and-pray kind of guy, honestly, but... hey, if I've got a reason to open fire, I'm also probably going to have a reason to go through a LOT more than 30 dag-blame rounds of ammo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One magazine pouch. Incredible. I should have brought three of my hi-caps.

So, lame ammo and a limited quantity of same. I'm so thrilled.

We un-ass North America early on Sunday morning. From the African forum, I learned about Ambien... and had my doctor prescribe some (bless his heart). So, when they expect us to hit the ground running (and they ALWAYS do), I will have gotten some sleep this time.

If any of you can smuggle a .45 and some ammo and magazines... well, I'd sure be appreciative.

At formation this morning, our chief of staff was pumping us up for battle, so to speak... typical "hooah" stuff, you know... and he made the comment about not knowing how long we'd be gone, because he didn't know what Saddam was going to do.

I said, loud enough for everyone in formation to hear, especially our chief of staff...

"Die, Sir."

Seemed to be favorably received by all present.

Russ

25 January 2003, 15:13

<.>

What? They don't supply the troops with long guns these days?

To quote the Oregon State Police: "The side arm is just to cover my ass until I can get to the long guns in the squad car."

26 January 2003, 10:40

Russell E. Taylor

quote:
Originally posted by Genghis:
What? They don't supply the troops with long guns these days?

To quote the Oregon State Police: "The side arm is just to cover my ass until I can get to the long guns in the squad car."

Field-grade officers and higher rate mousegun pistols. Company-grade officers and lower rate mousegun rifles.

I don't know about the Oregon State Police, but my personal creed, which I think I got from Jeff Cooper, is that "You only use a pistol to fight your way to a rifle." I have lived by this philosophy of armed combat for years. I still feel the same way. If there's a rifle available, that's what I'm going to fight my way to get my hands on.

We un-ass the terra firma of North America tomorrow. We got our shots this morning. I talked to the commander of our RSC today, who was here to address the families and thank them for their support, bla bla bla. He used to be the commander of my unit and a fellow, um, "firearms enthusiast." I commented to him about how, the way things are, I could have taken my own Beretta over and back without any hassle. He said that, yes, that's true, but that there is a published directive stating soldiers will not take their own personal firearms into combat (which I already knew). He made it a point to emphasize the word "take." He went on to say that there was nothing on the books about a soldier having his personal firearms mailed to him. This, from a major general. He said no more, and I asked no more. Food for thought.

Russ

[ 01-26-2003, 01:49: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ]