The Accurate Reloading Forums
Canadian Arctic Rangers new rifle
10 December 2017, 18:49
p dog shooterCanadian Arctic Rangers new rifle
Interesting wilderness rifle.
Stainless, laminate stocked magazine fed peep sighted rifle in 308.
Does not seem like a bad choice.
Full story and pictures at the link
http://news.nationalpost.com/n...extreme-temperatures10 December 2017, 20:35
SNAPToo heavy, too costly, NOT CRF and feels clublike to me.
Should have built on the Ruger Scout platform, but, I think that "politics" was/is involved here.
12 December 2017, 09:31
Lamarcolt Canada?
I kind of like the rifle.
if they put a realistic <800$ American price tag on it I might be interested in one.
12 December 2017, 16:54
p dog shooterquote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
colt Canada?
I kind of like the rifle.
if they put a realistic <800$ American price tag on it I might be interested in one.
Government contract prices are hard to determine what the rifle really cost.
They most likely include the case sling magazines other accessories. Maybe training, Armorer training, ammo ect.
I seen it first hand when companies would bid for new arms for the 500 man department I worked for.
12 December 2017, 19:12
Grizzly Adamsquote:
Originally posted by SNAP:
Too heavy, too costly, NOT CRF and feels clublike to me.
Should have built on the Ruger Scout platform, but, I think that "politics" was/is involved here.
Doesn't do a thing for me, agree wholeheartedly here.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
13 December 2017, 04:26
sheephunterabBig step up from the Enfield. Not sure what's not to like about a Sako.
13 December 2017, 15:40
BuffHunter63.308 seems rather limpid for griz/polar bear,etc.
A .300 WM would have given them a little more bang and a .338 would have made more sense for large carnivores.
Politics ar work I guess.
BH63
Hunting buff is better than sex!
13 December 2017, 16:18
p dog shooterquote:
Politics ar work I guess.
Remember what their primary mission is and why they were put together in the first place.
13 December 2017, 17:09
sheephunterabYup it's a NATO chambering. No surprise there.
13 December 2017, 19:13
Grizzly Adamsquote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Big step up from the Enfield. Not sure what's not to like about a Sako.
Come on, nothing wrong with the Enfield, but age and a dated look. Nobody ever faulted it as being inadequate for the job.
As for power, a lot of polar bears, caribou and musk ox were taken for food with it.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
13 December 2017, 21:36
SNAPThis overweight, over priced club is not 1/10th the rifle for tough conditions, combat, and solid reliability that a sound Longbranch Lee-Enfield was or still is.
The Lee_Enfield, has served the most successful military nation in history since circa 1885 and some are probably still in use in former colonies.
I would take one as a serious "bush rifle" and have over ANY Sako or Tikka, ever made. I am mostly a "Mauser Guy":, but, for what these rifles are intended to do, the Enfield kicks butt.
One of the guys I learned from, Joe Gulbeault, shot Lee-Enfields, and was the 1967-68 Bisley Champion. He was also a fine gunsmith, former BC Provincial Policeman and Inspector, with BCF&W and KNEW his stuff where guns and game were concerned.
My various uncles and their buddies, all Canuck volunteer WWII combat vets, Dieppe, Normandy, Italy and other places all preferred the No4 MK1s they had and these were men with scars and holes in them and memories that most of us, thank God, have never had to endure.
Nope, it is a mediocre choice, at best and one I expect we may regret.....rather like buying used planes from our Aussie brethren or subs from our Brit pals..........
14 December 2017, 00:49
sheephunterabquote:
Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
quote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Big step up from the Enfield. Not sure what's not to like about a Sako.
Come on, nothing wrong with the Enfield, but age and a dated look. Nobody ever faulted it as being inadequate for the job.
As for power, a lot of polar bears, caribou and musk ox were taken for food with it.
Grizz
You obviously have never seen the condition the Ranger's Enfields were in. They were never designed for those conditions and they had run their course. I doubt that many even function any more.
14 December 2017, 01:15
p dog shooterquote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
quote:
Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
quote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Big step up from the Enfield. Not sure what's not to like about a Sako.
Come on, nothing wrong with the Enfield, but age and a dated look. Nobody ever faulted it as being inadequate for the job.
As for power, a lot of polar bears, caribou and musk ox were taken for food with it.
Grizz
You obviously have never seen the condition the Ranger's Enfields were in. They were never designed for those conditions and they had run their course. I doubt that many even function any more.
Unlike a lot of others I know equipment wears out to a point it is no longer viable to keep it running.
Firearms are no different then any other piece of equipment. They wear out an there becomes a time they are no longer worth repairing or keeping in service. For many reasons.
14 December 2017, 02:33
Grizzly Adamsquote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
quote:
Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
quote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Big step up from the Enfield. Not sure what's not to like about a Sako.
Come on, nothing wrong with the Enfield, but age and a dated look. Nobody ever faulted it as being inadequate for the job.
As for power, a lot of polar bears, caribou and musk ox were taken for food with it.
Grizz
You obviously have never seen the condition the Ranger's Enfields were in. They were never designed for those conditions and they had run their course. I doubt that many even function any more.
Unlike a lot of others I know equipment wears out to a point it is no longer viable to keep it running.
Firearms are no different then any other piece of equipment. They wear out an there becomes a time they are no longer worth repairing or keeping in service. For many reasons.
Agreed, was just thinking of replacement along similar lines, it is supposed to be a military weapon, after all.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
14 December 2017, 02:36
sheephunterabA military weapon that can handle the most extreme conditions imaginable while receiving little or no maintenance. This seems to fit the bill!
14 December 2017, 02:57
SNAPMy wife was an "outpost RN" in the Territiries, my aunt was as well, during the 1930s and three of my great-great uncles were in the Yukon, from the outset of the gold rush.
I worked in the NWT, with an uncle a WWII vet. who had experience there from the 1930s and this was in 1966, so, I have seen some of it.
I worked alone, in extreme northern BC, in the bush for 3 month stretchs, no relief and probably no rescue if you were hurt. I actually carried a Geo. Gibbs modded Long Lee with the old 215KKSP ammo on one of these joba and it always functioned, flawlessly.
So, I disagree and the small loading-ejection port of this rifle, plus it's PF function will, IMO, lead to jams with frozen snow in severe weather.
I would choose the Enfield, in similar condition for THIS task over any rifle I can think of, except perhaps a Moisin and maybe a 1930s Obie 98.
By choice, after nearly 60 years of serious bushbashing, about 150 good rifles owned and many customs built, I would personally carry a Brno ZG-47 in a good synthetic handle with QD mounts and a MOd-70 safety. I have these and in the 9.3x62 with 286Npts at 2500ish, they are ideal, BUT, I am not likely to need a rifle for combat........
In any event, the deed is done now and we poor suckers have to pay for these at about 3 times their real world value..............
18 December 2017, 08:51
LongwalkerThinking the Lee Enfield is a better rifle is pretty funny. I think the Rangers will be very well served with this Tikka rifle. About perfect for the job that they expect it to do. If I didn't already have more rifles that I need I'd probably buy one.
18 December 2017, 12:49
SNAPWhy would an opinion from a man, raised in the mountains of BC, by WWI and WWII Canadian combat veterans, on such an issue be "funny"?
I started shooting, aged 12, now 71+, under the tutelage of one of my uncles, a vet, whose only rifle in civilian life, was a Longbranch LE and packed a few of them in remote BC wilderness for weeks to months on end, over 50+ years.
They are as close to "indestructible" as any rifle(s) ever made, easy to do field repairs on and accurate-powerful enough for the tasks on hand.
I have LOTS of fine custom working rifles and can buy about anything I want and have actually examined a couple of these new models. Sorry, but, they are clubs and a poor design for wilderness uses, IMHO.
18 December 2017, 22:18
LongwalkerPerhaps I find the opinion funny because I have been there and done that too, and have come to a very different opinion. Contrast = mirth perhaps? I respect your opinion, and the historical importance of the SMLE .303, but don't share your enthusiasm for it's present value.
My father was a WWII vet too. I started shooting at age 9, killed my first deer at 15 with a Lee-enfield #1 .303, owned and hunted with a No. 4 for a few years, and moved on.
The new Tikka rifle is plainly superior. It is far more precise, is built of more weather resistant materials, has a lower cost of manufacture, has better standard issue sights, is designed for use with a scope, is chambered in a superior cartridge that meets NATO standards, has a better trigger, a more ergonomic stock and is easier for the average person to shoot well.
I have lots of other rifles as well, but got rid of my old .303's long ago and don't miss them.
19 December 2017, 10:43
Saeedquote:
Originally posted by SNAP:
Too heavy, too costly, NOT CRF and feels clublike to me.
Should have built on the Ruger Scout platform, but, I think that "politics" was/is involved here.
I will take a Sako over a Ruger any day!
19 December 2017, 19:05
Grizzly Adamsquote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by SNAP:
Too heavy, too costly, NOT CRF and feels clublike to me.
Should have built on the Ruger Scout platform, but, I think that "politics" was/is involved here.
I will take a Sako over a Ruger any day!
Make that an older Sako and I'll agree.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
20 December 2017, 07:59
medvedonly time will tell.
after few seasons on a komatik or in a boat we will how it goes.
there is few tikkas that didnt want to shoot at -30c for bison hunting. tried everything including stoeger tips and tricks and nothing worked ... maybe good for the south but i do not think those rifles are arctic ready ...
sometimes a contract had nothing to do with what is good or not.
21 December 2017, 18:38
sheephunterabWhat was the cause of the malfunction? I've seen Tikkas used in much colder temps than -30 without issue. Interesting you've seen a few. What remedies did Stoger recommend?
23 December 2017, 07:37
medvedquote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
What was the cause of the malfunction? I've seen Tikkas used in much colder temps than -30 without issue. Interesting you've seen a few. What remedies did Stoger recommend?
the firing pins were slow down and so the primers were not ignited.
it was on 3 t3 in 300 winchester magnum. stoeger recommended to strip down the bolts and remove excess oil then add graphite powder.
which of course was done.
well despite those done it didnt work.
i was believing with rifles made in Finland we will not meet such issues. it was over 6 years ago and hope now the story is better.
now i wish the best for the rangers but time will tell.
23 December 2017, 21:08
sheephunterabSounds like a maintenance issue to me I've seen on virtually every brand of rifle.
24 December 2017, 00:05
medvedi never had any issue with other brands, now i have no dog in the fight ... nor a ranger nor a tikka user ... but when 3 guys using the same kind on the same hunt had issues i do not think this is maintenance issues ... we had another issue never fixed by stoeger on a 338 win mag but who i am to tell BS ... it happened.
we know a little how to use a rifle in the cold ... even if the yukon is not as cold as before ...
24 December 2017, 01:01
sheephunterabI've seen it happen with several brands...never the brand's fault. I run my fire pins dry....never had an issue. I've got no stake in this either....just know that Sako and Tikka make great rifles. No doubting it happened....just doubting where you are pointing the blame.
24 December 2017, 04:23
Grizzly AdamsA Canadian Ranger in Action.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
25 December 2017, 16:08
p dog shooterIs there a book about them?
25 December 2017, 20:04
Grizzly AdamsNo, stumbled across this in a National Geographic, a while back. That's a big bear and the guy doesn't seem worried he's using a "puny" .303, which caught my eye.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
02 January 2018, 04:32
medvedquote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
I've seen it happen with several brands...never the brand's fault. I run my fire pins dry....never had an issue. I've got no stake in this either....just know that Sako and Tikka make great rifles. No doubting it happened....just doubting where you are pointing the blame.
happy new year.
btw im not paid to defend a brand or another. it happened now if you put a low money t3 in the same bag as a well made sako that is maybe the problem ... there is still plastic part in the t3.
as i said cant wait few years of operations to see how they remain usable ... and here there is few patrols and they are not waiting for the t3s ...
02 January 2018, 04:38
medvedthis last week we had a little cold snap.
-37c without the windchill and i tested different rifles to make our bison hunt a little easier ..
so i tested ruger hawkeye, zastava m70, weatherby mark V and and old husqvarna mauser action all of them worked flawless i just did notice the lower impact. even the non magnum primer ignited ...
again not a full experience just mine.
02 January 2018, 18:31
sheephunterabquote:
Originally posted by medved:
btw im not paid to defend a brand or another. ...
Me neither
I have no doubt all the rifles worked if the bolts/fire pins were properly maintained...it's not rocket science. Interesting it was warmer up there than in the south this week.
As for plastic parts on the Tika...there are none involved with the firing pin. The bolt shroud and magazine are both poly carbonate but have zero impact on cold weather firing pin performance. Like I say, if they were lubricated improperly it's no surprise as it wouldn't have been on any other brand. Run them dry and there's no issues. Three at once though...sounds like you need someone to run a cold weather rifle maintenance workshop up there.
02 January 2018, 19:19
SkylineYes we had -40 temps a couple nights, with -50+ windchills. It was a wee bit nippy, but hey.....it keeps too many people from wanting to move here.
______________________________________________
The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift.
03 January 2018, 05:32
medvedquote:
Originally posted by sheephunterab:
quote:
Originally posted by medved:
btw im not paid to defend a brand or another. ...
Me neither
I have no doubt all the rifles worked if the bolts/fire pins were properly maintained...it's not rocket science. Interesting it was warmer up there than in the south this week.
As for plastic parts on the Tika...there are none involved with the firing pin. The bolt shroud and magazine are both poly carbonate but have zero impact on cold weather firing pin performance. Like I say, if they were lubricated improperly it's no surprise as it wouldn't have been on any other brand. Run them dry and there's no issues. Three at once though...sounds like you need someone to run a cold weather rifle maintenance workshop up there.
look the safety lever and the plastic connection ....
words taken that you will teach us how to make a tikka working in the cold and you will use one on a bison hunting in the winter ...
i never had a rifle not working because of the cold ... -37c of course was not the coldest spot in Canada but my rifles worked only what i wanted to point out ...
03 January 2018, 06:21
sheephunterabSounds like you maintain them properly for cold weather. I've never not had one work either. Different brands but likely same maintenance. That's what I wanted to point out
04 January 2018, 09:43
ALFMy T3 story: Plastic fantastic 300 win
Hunting Moose and Cougar in the Flathead valley. Minus 22 C
Slept with rifle in cabin overnight with stove going all nice and warm then outside in snow
Snow falls on warm rifle and melts then freezes
Rifle frozen bolt would not budge ! useless !
had a can of window de icer in the truck used that on the rifle to get it to cycle !
First and last time ever after that left the rifle in the cold and not inside, worked well after
04 January 2018, 11:33
medvedquote:
Originally posted by ALF:
My T3 story: Plastic fantastic 300 win
Hunting Moose and Cougar in the Flathead valley. Minus 22 C
Slept with rifle in cabin overnight with stove going all nice and warm then outside in snow
Snow falls on warm rifle and melts then freezes
Rifle frozen bolt would not budge ! useless !
had a can of window de icer in the truck used that on the rifle to get it to cycle !
First and last time ever after that left the rifle in the cold and not inside, worked well after
moisture can be a killer on an rifle action ...
01 February 2018, 07:56
Mike_DettorreYeah not CRF, of course no military or security agency would ever use a non-crf rifle.
See lesson #6 & 7.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
02 February 2018, 01:30
Grizzly Adamsquote:
Originally posted by Skyline:
Yes we had -40 temps a couple nights, with -50+ windchills. It was a wee bit nippy, but hey.....it keeps too many people from wanting to move here.
They claim 90% of Canadians live within 200 miles of the US border.
Still Fn cold, -20 here right now.
Grizz
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.