I am handloading for 450NE using Hornady brass (rifle regulated for Knyoch 480gr factory ammunition) and 470NE (1926 regulated for 75gr cordite/500grSP). Issue is that of powder choice in 450NE and 470NE.

Should I use a faster powder (e.g. Reloader-15 or Varget or H4350) for reduced recoil & reduced down barrel pressure, or a slower powder (e.g. Reloader 19 or H4831 or H4831SC or H1000) for greater (safer?) loading density & reducing/eliminating need for (potentially "dangerous"???) filler use. Some reloaders apparently lean towards using slower powders like H4831/H4831sc providing greater load density and avoiding filler usage, accepting a bit more recoil in the trade off. What am I not understanding about powder selection choice in the 450NE and 470NE given that some professionals/companies recommend/ use powders from the faster powder selections (e.g. some PHs in press, Federal in manufacturing their 470NE ammunition using RL15 equiv with significant airspace, and Norma in their 9.3x74R ammunition using 203B powder)? I am confused as we are often advised to use powders from the slower burn rate options list.
Is H4831/H4831SC, or H4350, or Reloader 19 (Graeme Wrights 3 recommendations) or some other powder your first choice powder for use handloading the 450NE for use in a good quality modern built (high quality steel) double rifle (using 480gr Woodleigh SPRN/ Fed 215/215M primers)? As noted the 450NE case capacity may be insufficient/velocity might not be fast enough on H4831 to regulate in 24" bbls for my 450NE. Might be the reason why Graeme Wright lists H4350 above H4831, as is easier to be assured that handloaders get enough regulating velocity (per the specific gun preference). Graeme notes that RL19 and H4350 are easier to get enough powder into the 450NE case, than H4831. I suspect a gun's load preference is also related to whether using new or fired brass. In my 470NE I had to switch from RL15 to RL19 to maintain a safe loading density with multiple case firings and even then I still had to use a dacron filler. I would like to use a temperature insensitive powder choice to reduce/eliminate the temperature variable thus steering me away from RL19 or RL22 and towards H4831 (slow powder) or possibly H4350 (faster powder), both from the extreme powder series. Cannot get even a general answer from Hodgdon, Hornay, Federal nor Knyamco on this powder choice issue.

My choice

"for greater (safer?) loading density & reducing/eliminating need for (potentially "dangerous"???) filler use. Some reloaders apparently lean towards using slower powders like H4831/H4831sc providing greater load density and avoiding filler usage, accepting a bit more recoil in the trade off."


I don't like fillers.


I would like to see the ACTUAL figures as opposed to perceived thoughts on
"accepting a bit more recoil in the trade off". And before I get blasted,
I have said that you "feel" some powders more than others but I look at it as more of a slow shove as opposed to a sharp kick but I would still like to see the actual figure.

RL 15 hands down IMO!

RS470NE:
In the late '80s and early '90s I experimented with them all--and most work. It just comes down to one's opinion. And, my opinion is this: IMR 4831 works well, regulates well at approximately 1.33% of the cordite charge, and most cases are filled to the base of the bullet--little or no air space--including my .600. Exceptions are the big-cased .450 and .475 no2s. Good luck. You'll get lots of data on this thread--it is all good and it is all right.
Cheers,
Cal

I had great results with both H-4831 and IMR-4831. Duplicated factory (Hornady) ballistics with great acccuracy and no issues, both with Hornady DGX and Woodleighs. With RL-15 it was a hassle because I had to use a wad. jorge

I use IMR 4350(vintage DuPont, not that new stuff) in both 450 and 450-400; works well, and (no test data as I have no kick meter) it kicks less, for me. I have used 4831 too, and it works well, but 4350 is more versatile so I seem to have a lot of it.

I've been using RL15 and filler in my vintage 450ne, after reading Jorge's informative post on his reloading journey with his 450 I considered switching to a 4831 powder and do away with the filler. After speaking with a friend whose advise I consider sound I decided to stay with RL15. He felt that RL15 was kinder to older steels by keeping the pressure spike closer to the breach end and would recommend 4831s with the newer steels.

Zephyr: I heard the same cautionary caveat for vintage doubles and 4831 as well. Maybe some of our resident experts can chime in and validate this for us. jorge

I've seen several barrels that have blown on vintage guns at Champlins. Both 4831 and R-15 have blown the barrels I witnessed. I'm not convinced either powder type was to blame as there are too many variables to isolate the powder as the only reason.

I've had vintage guns prefer one powder over the other and if that's the case I let the gun decide. If the gun shoots them both equally well I'd go with R-15 as it kicks less and foam fillers don't bother me. Usually though the gun will show a definate preference for powder type.

quote:

Originally posted by 470Evans: If the gun shoots them both equally well I'd go with R-15 as it kicks less and foam fillers don't bother me.

Agree 100%!

I might add that I do not feel that adding fillers is a "hassle" at all. Cutting 20 pieces backer rod to lenth=1 minute. Placing said backer rod in brass over powder=2 minutes. So, ballpark +/- 3 minutes is no biggee IMHO.

I have a merkel 470 and a 470 chapruis . The merkel would never shoot well with rl15. but loved 4831, which kicked like a mule. My chapruis loves rl15 and H4895. Hodgen recomend H 4895 for their reduced loads, i stilol use some foam , but the little testing I have done so far looks promising. rl19 and h4350 shot well in the merkel but has not been tried in my chapruis.

JD

JD

Hello,

I use IMR 4831 for both calibers and am very happy with it.

470NE 105 grains shoots ~ 2150 Fps
450NE 96 grains with FTX 325 gr bullets ~ 2300 Fps

Nitro