Does anyone own one? Or have shot one? What do/did you think? They seem like a very nice rifle. I know their trap guns are excellent.

aussie you need to post this on the Double Rifle forum. I have a K gun in 500/416. Love the gun and the caliber. Do a search on that forum you will find plenty of opinions. Some (a few) hate the K gun because of it's cocking feature instead of the safety. However, these same folks hate the Blaser even more because it always decocks on closing while the K gun if cocked, when you open it and close it again, it stays cocked.
Peter.

Nice rifles But you must like the Safety system.

Yes you need to post this on the double rifles forum......and yes take a pass on them. Craftsmanship is reasonably good for the money. The cocker is an absolute deal breaker!

Brett

This is always a nonsensical topic. The K cocker/decocker is not a favorite of mine but it is a good idea if a gunbearer is lugging it around. It will not wind up shooting you in the back if it is not cocked!

And until makers decide to quit making overweight pigs of their doubles, the gunbearer can carry it.

And it is quickly cocked if you are in a hurry, even for old guys like me.

Have one (500/416). Have been very pleased with it...

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Yes you need to post this on the double rifles forum......and yes take a pass on them. Craftsmanship is reasonably good for the money. The cocker is an absolute deal breaker!

Brett

Brett, ++++++ and hell, I've got one.

Steve

I own and shoot a Krieghoff .500NE. Safest way to carry a double in my opinion and the cocking lever is not hard to use.

quote:

The cocker is an absolute deal breaker!

I've never hunted with one but handled many and never even for a second thought the cocker was an issue. I just don;t get that... You push the damn thing forward and shoot until the thing falls, what's the big deal?

Safest double on the market for your PH.....and the cocking mechanism is a no-brainer. It's not "traditional", but so what. The K-guns are nice.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

The cocker is an absolute deal breaker!

I've never hunted with one but handled many and never even for a second thought the cocker was an issue. I just don;t get that... You push the damn thing forward and shoot until the thing falls, what's the big deal?

I started using tang safeties when I was 12. Somehow I've managed to survive this long even with the EXTREME amount of perill it's put my in....... .....Ok seriously though! I'm just not getting it. I don't see any need for the "improvement". Either you know, believe in, and follow the basic principals of firearms safety or you don't. And if you don't no amount of "improvements" will make you safe when handling a firearm. Yes the cocker takes several times more force than any tang safety I've ever opporated. If I'm hot and sweety running around after animals the last thing I need is an extra challenge in taking off the safety/cocking the rifle to shoot it. I guess my take after handling them and many other traditional tang safety rifles and shotguns is that it was an "answer" for a non issue. Fixing a non existing problem.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

The cocker is an absolute deal breaker!

I've never hunted with one but handled many and never even for a second thought the cocker was an issue. I just don;t get that... You push the damn thing forward and shoot until the thing falls, what's the big deal?

I love my K-Gun in 470NE. My PH in Tanzania uses a 500NE K-Gun

I wonder how many who bad mouth the K-Gun ever actually ever hunted with one. Just askin.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Yes you need to post this on the double rifles forum......and yes take a pass on them. Craftsmanship is reasonably good for the money. The cocker is an absolute deal breaker!

Brett

+1

Adam,

Here's a small quote from one of Peter Flack's articles...

"It is out of the way and less likely to be bumped and I know of at least one PH whose safety catch on his double rifle (carried over his shoulder with the barrel to the front) was not only knocked to the fire position but one of whose triggers was also subsequently hooked by a passing branch. The resulting shot hit both trackers to his front, killing one and severely wounding the other."

So, there's one example of where the someone would have likely been saved by the K-gun style cocker. Can you supply ONE example of when the K-Gun's cocker CAUSED anyone's injury? There maybe some out there but I've never heard of them. I'd be willing to bet you'll find more unhitched safeties that showed up at the wrong time than K-Guns that were NOT cocked at an inopportune time. Look, you can shoot whatever you want, and so can I, but to say that the cocking mechanism of a K-Gun is such an abomination (think of it this way, the ONLY difference to the shooter is force) as to be a deal breaker I think falls into the K-Gun bashing, kool-aid drinking group.

In my view, the talk about the cocking lever being hard to use, etc. generally comes from those that have not used one regularly. I know that they work under pressure just fine:

I know that for me, the cocking piece was why I did not buy one. I got to shoot a .375 K gun once, and while it shot well, and was reasonably well put together, and the price was good, I failed to shoot 3 times out of 6 shots because I mismanipulated it.

I suspect that it will work fine for someone who wants to put a lot of time into learning it. If you are a person who shoots a lot of cocking piece guns, it will be great. But with my hard-wiring with the use of tang safetys with shotguns, I just felt it was a shot opportunity miss or FTF when I needed it.

Good Lord, I don't believe some of this stuff.

Nicely done Jines.

I played with a K-gun in Dallas. After what I read on AR, I was predisposed to the many evils of the cocking lever. Once I handled the gun my thought was, "What's the big deal?"

One PH that uses a K Gun told me that he could have any rifle that he wanted and that the K-gun's accuracy and safety features were why he carried and recommended the K-gun above all others.

I'm not a double fan mostly just because of the cost but I have handled a couple of K-guns and I really don't see the problem. They are a modern rifle and the 500-416 caliber rifle with a quick detachable scope could handle 90% of African hunting.

The safety issue is not one to be taken lightly. Roger Whittal did in fact kill his tracker with his cocked 465 carried in the "African" carry position. If he was carrying a K-gun the accident would not have happened.

Handling and shooting a double is a new discipline for most of us bolt shooters so why not start off with something new, of good quality and safe.

Mark

I have one; it is very accurate; but you must get used to the cocker; and understand that once cocked, it stays cocked even after opening and closing the action. But is no problem and cocks and un-cocks fairly easily.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

The cocker is an absolute deal breaker!

I've never hunted with one but handled many and never even for a second thought the cocker was an issue. I just don;t get that... You push the damn thing forward and shoot until the thing falls, what's the big deal?

I love my K-Gun in 470NE. My PH in Tanzania uses a 500NE K-Gun

I wonder how many who bad mouth the K-Gun ever actually ever hunted with one. Just askin.

I own one and have hunted with one. Like Brett, If you don't handle a gun like a complete idiot in the field and with normal safe gun handling skills why do you need to reinvent the damn wheel. I too survived an abusive father making me shoot all those sxs shotguns with tang safety's.

If the 35# of force is so safe, why not make it cocked by foot with the muzzle pointed down for added safety. or how bout a 45ACP style grip safe so if you drop it while cocked it still wont go off?

Damn Germans anyway

Steve

crbutler- "I suspect it will work fine for someone who wants to put a lot of time in learning it" I suspect it all depends on how quick a learner you are. I figure most folks could learn to use it in an hour or two. Didn't take quite that long for me. Doesn't seem like all that big a deal to me.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I know that for me, the cocking piece was why I did not buy one. I got to shoot a .375 K gun once, and while it shot well, and was reasonably well put together, and the price was good, I failed to shoot 3 times out of 6 shots because I mismanipulated it.

I suspect that it will work fine for someone who wants to put a lot of time into learning it. If you are a person who shoots a lot of cocking piece guns, it will be great. But with my hard-wiring with the use of tang safetys with shotguns, I just felt it was a shot opportunity miss or FTF when I needed it.

quote:

normal safe gun handling skills

Sometimes "shit Happens" trumps safe gun handling skills, no matter how hard we try.

I don't think it's reinventing the wheel. As i say, other than force, there is no difference in operations.

If all you 'tang safety' folks would have kittens with the K-Gun, God forbid you decide to take your Mauser or MOdel 70 out and have to take the safety off in a hurry; you'd all be pounded into the proverbial raspberry jelly...

Accurate rifle:



I used one in .470NE on buffalo and tuskless in 2008. I liked the rifle and got used to the cocking system. Have a Merkel sidelock now only because I wanted a .500 NE and it was a good deal.

posted by BaxterB:
"(carried over his shoulder with the barrel to the front) was not only knocked to the fire position but one of whose triggers was also subsequently hooked by a passing branch. The resulting shot hit both trackers to his front, killing one and severely wounding the other."

Well if I drive my truck 60mph down a side walk it would probably be dangerous too. That said just because I'm and idiot and completely disregarding even the most basic rules of driver's safety doesn't mean that my truck in and of it self is inherently dangerous. The same could be said about his double and his safety or lack there of or better yet complete and total disregard of firearms safety!!! I'm not sure who taught him or you for that matter (if you believe carrying a loaded firearm over your shoulder with the barrel(s) pointing at someone is alright) firearms safety, but obviously they didn't do a good enough job teaching and reenforcing safety!

"So, there's one example of where the someone would have likely been saved by the K-gun style cocker."

So if you have a K gun then you can "safely" point a loaded weapon at people! Perhaps just perhaps the cause of this was a MONUMENTAL breakdown in firearms safety!!!

"Can you supply ONE example of when the K-Gun's cocker CAUSED anyone's injury?"

No I can't. Nor have I claimed that it is a danger. What I said was I don't see that there was a problem/flaw in the tang safety design in the first place. I don't see an advantage to the cocker as I don't make it a habit to point my loaded weapons at anyone and further more make it a point of bordering on paranoya to constantly check the position of my safety while in the field. I do see how the cocker could be a pain in the butt to get off when your hot and tired and your fingers are sweety. I have no doubt the more you use them the easier they are to manuver.

"but to say that the cocking mechanism of a K-Gun is such an abomination (think of it this way, the ONLY difference to the shooter is force) as to be a deal breaker I think falls into the K-Gun bashing, kool-aid drinking group."

If you don't perceive there to be a problem with a tang safety why would you want a cocker? If your firearms safety is worth a hoot why would you need one? If you have the trackers carry your loaded gun for you then yes I could see the concern. Simple fix though......carry your own gun or let them carry it unloaded! This isn't coolaid. This is reasonable and rational thought that works for me and many others. When people start going off about how dangerous they are.......ok maybe that's coolaid. I wouldn't tell someone who has one that they are a danger to themselves, but I'd point out to someone asking about getting a gun that they may find the cocker a disadvantage to them as I find it a disadvantage to me.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
If all you 'tang safety' folks would have kittens with the K-Gun, God forbid you decide to take your Mauser or MOdel 70 out and have to take the safety off in a hurry; you'd all be pounded into the proverbial raspberry jelly...

What?

Brett

Nice target Paul. Will your new M-gun print like that?

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
crbutler- "I suspect it will work fine for someone who wants to put a lot of time in learning it" I suspect it all depends on how quick a learner you are. I figure most folks could learn to use it in an hour or two. Didn't take quite that long for me. Doesn't seem like all that big a deal to me.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I know that for me, the cocking piece was why I did not buy one. I got to shoot a .375 K gun once, and while it shot well, and was reasonably well put together, and the price was good, I failed to shoot 3 times out of 6 shots because I mismanipulated it.

I suspect that it will work fine for someone who wants to put a lot of time into learning it. If you are a person who shoots a lot of cocking piece guns, it will be great. But with my hard-wiring with the use of tang safetys with shotguns, I just felt it was a shot opportunity miss or FTF when I needed it.

Larry,

What I did was try and snap shoot it at a running deer target at 25 yards. I didn't push it far enough to engage, and by the time I realized it, the target was passed. As I said, I am kinda slow to change, and shooting various O/U shotguns has gotten me used to that.

Could I relearn it? Absolutely.

But why waste my time with it when I can get a Merkel that works the same way my shotguns do?

I am not saying it won't work, but if you shoot something else a lot, it can screw you up.

Since a double is kind of a "oh &^%$" gun, why take a risk there? Its not like the Kreighoff system is the only thing out there, is it? It works well for Mr. Jines. It may work well for you. I don't think it will work well for me, and it seems that there are a few who agree with both of us, so don't be so pompus.

I wanted a double as a carry gun and was recommended a K .470 by old time PH Fred Duckworth.

Worth every penny.

And that would be two more recommendations.

quote:

posted by BaxterB:
"(carried over his shoulder with the barrel to the front) was not only knocked to the fire position but one of whose triggers was also subsequently hooked by a passing branch. The resulting shot hit both trackers to his front, killing one and severely wounding the other."

Well if I drive my truck 60mph down a side walk it would probably be dangerous too. That said just because I'm and idiot and completely disregarding even the most basic rules of driver's safety doesn't mean that my truck in and of it self is inherently dangerous. The same could be said about his double and his safety or lack there of or better yet complete and total disregard of firearms safety!!! I'm not sure who taught him or you for that matter (if you believe carrying a loaded firearm over your shoulder with the barrel(s) pointing at someone is alright) firearms safety, but obviously they didn't do a good enough job teaching and reenforcing safety!

It's not a matter of being able to point a loaded rifle at anyone, so lay off the straw man arguments, that's weak. Remember, you are the one who had an issue with the K-Gun mechanism, not I, so when I give an example of where it could have been beneficial and you argue that it was something else, you purposely change the subject to fit your reasoning. Carrying the rifle over your shoulder is very common and does not necessarily mean one is practicing bad gun handling. The nature of an accident is just that, NO ONE INTENDS to shoot someone, (or discharge their weapon accidentally) but things do happen. BY your logic, the answer essentially boils down to safe gun handling, then I ask, Why have a safety at all? Just keep your damn finger off the trigger... The same reason you want a safety, tang or not, is the same reason the K mechanism exists, to help eliminate accidental discharges of the rifle.


"So, there's one example of where the someone would have likely been saved by the K-gun style cocker."

So if you have a K gun then you can "safely" point a loaded weapon at people! Perhaps just perhaps the cause of this was a MONUMENTAL breakdown in firearms safety!!!
Again, ditch the straw man arguments, I never said or even implied that.


"Can you supply ONE example of when the K-Gun's cocker CAUSED anyone's injury?"

No I can't. Nor have I claimed that it is a danger. What I said was I don't see that there was a problem/flaw in the tang safety design in the first place. I don't see an advantage to the cocker as I don't make it a habit to point my loaded weapons at anyone and further more make it a point of bordering on paranoya to constantly check the position of my safety while in the field. I do see how the cocker could be a pain in the butt to get off when your hot and tired and your fingers are sweety. I have no doubt the more you use them the easier they are to manuver.

"but to say that the cocking mechanism of a K-Gun is such an abomination (think of it this way, the ONLY difference to the shooter is force) as to be a deal breaker I think falls into the K-Gun bashing, kool-aid drinking group."

If you don't perceive there to be a problem with a tang safety why would you want a cocker? If your firearms safety is worth a hoot why would you need one? If you have the trackers carry your loaded gun for you then yes I could see the concern. Simple fix though......carry your own gun or let them carry it unloaded! This isn't coolaid. This is reasonable and rational thought that works for me and many others. When people start going off about how dangerous they are.......ok maybe that's coolaid. I wouldn't tell someone who has one that they are a danger to themselves, but I'd point out to someone asking about getting a gun that they may find the cocker a disadvantage to them as I find it a disadvantage to me.

Why do so many handguns now have decockers?, it is because the perfectly designed handgun had already been made and they just wanted to spend R & D money? To take it to another level, why did Glock design his pistol that the striker was NEVER under spring tension unless it was being fired? BEcause he perceived it as being safer, that's why, it is IMPOSSIBLE to discharge in a resting state, period. K simply thinks the same way. Your idea of a simple fix being to carry your own weapon is funny, as alluded to by MArk above, a rather experienced PH had an accident that ended in death. Should we assume he wasn't capable of handling his own rifle? Again, if it's all abotu safe gun handling, ditch the safety all together, then they CAN'T fail, right?

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
If all you 'tang safety' folks would have kittens with the K-Gun, God forbid you decide to take your Mauser or MOdel 70 out and have to take the safety off in a hurry; you'd all be pounded into the proverbial raspberry jelly...


What?

This is in reference to your comment "If I'm hot and sweety running around after animals the last thing I need is an extra challenge in taking off the safety/cocking the rifle to shoot it" What is the extra challenge on a K-Gun? And if the extra pressure needed to cock the K-Gun as an "extra challenge" than surely that damn wing type MOdel 70 safety (because it's not on the tang) must be even moreso.

Originally posted by BaxterB:
"so when I give an example of where it could have been beneficial and you argue that it was something else, you purposely change the subject to fit your reasoning. Carrying the rifle over your shoulder is very common and does not necessarily mean one is practicing bad gun handling"

If you have a loaded gun pointed at someone I don't care how you are doing it! Over the shoulder, under your arm, between your legs, or twirling it like a battan it doesn't matter because you've broken the most basic rule of firearms safety: DON'T EVER POINT A LOADED WEAPON AT A PERSON! I don't care how many times you see the African carry on TAA or how many times you read about it! IF YOU POINT A LOADED WEAPON AT ANYONE THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM! So yes if you have a complete disregard for even the most basic of firearms safety and carry a loaded double over your shoulder pointed at someone then you are probably better of with a K gun safety wise. I'm glad we got that important point sorted out for the original poster. However I'm hoping he has a clue about firearms safety and this added advantage of the K gun won't be needed.

"BY your logic, the answer essentially boils down to safe gun handling"

I sincerely hope that's eveyone's logic that ever handles a firearm!

"Why have a safety at all?"

For safety purposes.

"Just keep your damn finger off the trigger"

Yep. I do that too!

"The same reason you want a safety, tang or not, is the same reason the K mechanism exists, to help eliminate accidental discharges of the rifle."

True. I'm just not sure that it's better....for me and perhaps for others hence I pointed out it is a deal breaker for ME. I don't have some sort of crusade against the K gun. I think they are very nicely made guns and I've heard mostly good from those who own them. They are probably some of the nicest for that money range. But after having used tang safeties since I was a little kid and shot and handled......God knows how many double rifles and shotguns I wouldn't want anything else.

"Again, ditch the straw man arguments, I never said or even implied that"

I know you didn't I was just being ridiculous to emphasize the point that it shouldn't have mattered what he was using because the rifle should have NEVER been pointed at someone!

"Why do so many handguns now have decockers?, it is because the perfectly designed handgun had already been made and they just wanted to spend R & D money?"

The same reason why you can't find a factory rifle any more with a decent trigger........their attorneys told them to. No seriously! It's sad!

"Your idea of a simple fix being to carry your own weapon is funny"

Not really if you regularly have someone that carries your weapons who does not understand firearms or firearms safety. It could be quite dangerous letting that person carry your rifle loaded.

"as alluded to by MArk above, a rather experienced PH had an accident that ended in death. Should we assume he wasn't capable of handling his own rifle?"

Being a good or experienced hunter doesn't mean you have impecable safety practices when it comes to gun handling. Seriously how many times have you watched an African hunting show and seen a PH or client for that matter waving their (likely loaded) rifle across people's backs as they do the "African carry"? Seriously! If you aren't seeing it either you aren't watching them or you aren't paying attention. I see it all the time! Should we assume he was incapable? I would tend to say that since his rifle was pointed at a person when it accidentally discarged....yes he wasn't capable of SAFELY handling his rifle on his own. The proof is in the dead and wounded trackers.

"Again, if it's all abotu safe gun handling, ditch the safety all together, then they CAN'T fail, right?"

I think we both know how ridiculous that is. One thing I know for a fact: If you never point a gun at someone you will never shoot someone no matter how poorly you gun is made or how poorly you follow the other firearms safety rules! I can understand why people like the K guns. If you like the cocker our think you can learn to use it just fine then fine. If you're like me you'll realize it's a nice gun, but take a pass due to the cocker.

"What is the extra challenge on a K-Gun? And if the extra pressure needed to cock the K-Gun as an "extra challenge" than surely that damn wing type MOdel 70 safety (because it's not on the tang) must be even moreso."

The extra challenge with the K gun is you have to push harder. Is it too hard or needlessly hard? I'll let each person be the judge of that for themselves. A model 70 style safety of which I have several rifles sporting them is physically easily moved forward. With no more effort than a 2 position style safety. You're reaching on this one.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by aussie21:
Does anyone own one? Or have shot one? What do/did you think? They seem like a very nice rifle. I know their trap guns are excellent.

I'm sorry we've got horribly off course. I do not own one nor have I ever. I have never shot one. I have shot MANY doubles in a variety of makes, sizes, calibres, and various features in addition to the many more I've handled. That said I have handled a K gun. For what it's worth I think they are very nicely built guns for the money. Good craftsmanship and good balance. For ME the kocker is a deal breaker. If you like the feature and feel it is not a problem then I think a K gun may well be a good option for you. If you've never used, owned, or shot doubles before I would strongly recomend getting out to handle and more importantly shoot as many as you can before making a decission. I would also strongly advise you to look at the Heyms, Verney Carrons, and Merkels to see what you like between them all. That said if you don't mind spending a bit more classic English guns are a blast. I hope this helps and good luck on your decision!

Brett

I bought a K-gun in 450/400 as my first double. It fits me well, shoots far better than I expected it to, and is very well made. The cocking/decocking style "safety" isn't an issue. Other than the extra amount of force needed to engage/disengage it, it took all of about 5 minutes to get used to it. The big majority of my guns, both shotguns and bolts, have tang safeties and they have never been an issue at all. The K-gun has been no different. Maybe I've never seen it as an issue because I was taught to shoot with hammer guns in both shotguns and rifles. Learn how to do it right from the beginning and there shouldn't be any problems.

Coincedently if one does more than just glancing research on other makes one would find that several other makers, Merkel, Zoli, Sabatti, and several other besides Kriegoff and Blaser offer the cocking/decocking device on their guns, especially their combination guns. Must be something "good" to the device if others are offering virtually identical "safeties".

Nonsensical stuff aside, it wouldn't be impossible to imagine a PH not objecting to a K gun being carried by either an old-timer or a nervous rookie.

With a double using a tang safety or a model 70 with a difficult to manipulate safety that is about to be shoved up the tracker's or PH's ass, I could see a bit of concern on the part of the guys in the front of the line.

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
Safest double on the market for your PH

I just don't point my rifle at the PH nor do I have some guy carry my rifle that might shoot me or someone else, no brainer.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
This is always a nonsensical topic. The K cocker/decocker is not a favorite of mine but it is a good idea if a gunbearer is lugging it around. It will not wind up shooting you in the back if it is not cocked!

And until makers decide to quit making overweight pigs of their doubles, the gunbearer can carry it.

And it is quickly cocked if you are in a hurry, even for old guys like me.

+1
Enjoyed my K-500 for 16 years - cocking actuator/safety is easily adapted to and works well.

The gun grouped well with all my handloads of differing bullet wts and all factory ammo that I tried.

quote:

However I'm hoping he has a clue about firearms safety and this added advantage of the K gun won't be needed.

So now it's an advantage?

quote:

For safety purposes.

And just what are safety purposes?

if you are thinking about one go check them out. Hold them and get the feel if you like it and it fits you bingo. I have had several doubles and still do and I personnally like the k-gun. Do I like it more than merkel, VC or Chapuis? no but i like them the same. i have and have had big name british guns and it is a personal thing, i prefer the newer doubles to the old ones. I did not say they were better guns I just prefer them.

Gentlemen when the K-guns first came on the market I saw them at the Dallas Safari Club show, and was given a demonstration by the guy running the Krieghoff booth. Of course the guy demonstrating the system was not aware of all it’s features, so I was left with a reluctant feeling about the system.

In the beginning the K-gun de-cocking system was not well understood, and most double rifle hunters were leery of this thing, and I was one of them as well. The K-gun system was thought, by most, to be an accident waiting to happen, and I was firmly seated in that canoe as well. Most were of the opinion, me included, that the rifle had to be re-cocked after every opening of the rifle, and that “IS” the case with the Blaser S2 but not with the K-gun. Most think the systems of both the K-gun and the Blaser S2 are the same, but they are certainly not the same.

Over time, I have changed my mind 180 degrees from my first opinion of this rifle system on the Krieghoff double rifles in favor of it. The Blaser S2, OTOH, has the drawback that I had misgivings about in the beginning of the K-gun. The Blaser S2 is “IS” saddled with that negative feature that worried most of us when the K-gun arrived on the market, of automatically de-cocking the rifle if opened for any reason requiring a manual re-cocking before it can be fired. This is not a feature that I would want in a close-in charge of a buffalo or lion.

An automatic safety on a rifle of any type that is to be used on large dangerous game makes no sense at all. If it were so desirable then why do we not have auto safeties on bolt rifles that reset the safety every time we work the bolt? SILLY, you say? Why is it sillier on a bolt rifle than on a double rifle?

For those who have doubts still, and may not still understand the K-gun de-cocking system, let me explain.

To operate the K-gun, you simply open the rifle, and load the barrels, close it and push the cocking lever (SAFETY) forward slightly and release, or simply pull the lever back to it’s rearward position. The springs are relieved completely so there is nothing to drive the tumblers forward. The rifle can be carried this way with complete safety. That is not to say safety practices are no longer needed but the rifle is as safe as a rifle can be made with rounds in the chambers.

Once a stalk starts the rifle can be carried at port arms till there is a need to cock the rifle. Cocking the rifle is best done at the port arms position. Now you fire the rifle, one or both barrels, and break the rifle to re-load one or both chambers, then close the rifle. The K-gun is ready to fire one or both barrels without any re-cocking, the same as a conventional hammerless double rifle. The rifle once cocked, and fired automatically re-cocks it’s self on opening exactly like any other double rifle EXCEPT the Blaser S2 which automatically de-cocks the rifle if opened for any reason, and must be manually re-cocked before it can be fired.

Now with the K-gun fired, and re-loaded, closed all one has to do the make the rifle safe again is to push the de-cocking lever forward, and release or manually pull the lever back to it’s safe position. Do I own a Krieghoff double rifle? I do not, but not because of the de-cocking system. The rifles simply do not fit me well, and would require a complete re-stocking before they would fit me. An expense I’m not willing to tender when I can buy any number of off the shelf doubles that fit me well from the box.

The K-guns appear to be well made, but I can't get past the safety issue either. It's been too ingrained in me that just before the buttstock hits my shoulder, my thumb pushes the safety to the off position. My Chapuis and former Heym allowed that to be easily done. I cannot do that with a K-gun. Probably I have wimpy thumbs. A Krieghoof representative showed me that the decocker is really meant to be be pushed off well before the rifle is raised to the shoulder so that you have more leverage to apply to it.

I'm with a couple of the previous posters on this - the "African carry" a dangerous and unsafe behavior if anyone is in front of you. Don't do it.