Alaska/Africa vs Heritage/ Entry level

04 September 2009, 07:24

Whilst I would agree I would in fact hunt in the harsh conditions of Alaska with an entry level DR, would you take your "Best" or "Bespoke" caribou hunting in the muskeg? and duck swamps of the Alaska Peninsula

"Tradition"
BB

04 September 2009, 08:11

Snowwolfe

I wouldnt. Caribou are often found more than a couple of hundred yards away and I would most likely use my bolt action in .270WSM or .300 WSM.

04 September 2009, 10:13

N E 450 No2

The two caribou I killed In Alaska were taken with my 450/400 3 1/4" London Sporting Park Double Rifle with iron sights.

One trotting at @85 yards, the other at a full run at @ 150/175 yards. Both with iron sights.
400 gr Woodleigh Softs.

04 September 2009, 19:22

eezridr

NW Alaska is very dry if you are hunting north east of Kotzebue, no issue with your fine rifle unless you have to use it as a walking stick to get through the tussocks.. Coastal Alaska is a different story

05 September 2009, 23:43

Pepper_Tick

I would hunt Alaska with a entry grade double like the low-end Krieghoffs and Chapuis' but not with a high-grade gun. I would rather use a bolt rifle, however.

06 September 2009, 02:43

Buffalobeans

quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:
I would hunt Alaska with a entry grade double like the low-end Krieghoffs and Chapuis' but not with a high-grade gun. I would rather use a bolt rifle, however.

Isn't that a bit rude.

06 September 2009, 03:40

Pepper_Tick

quote:
Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:
I would hunt Alaska with a entry grade double like the low-end Krieghoffs and Chapuis' but not with a high-grade gun. I would rather use a bolt rifle, however.

Isn't that a bit rude.

No, a $10K Krieghoff or Chapuis isn't exactly a London Best quality firearm. I'd rather have nice quality custom bolt guns for the price of an entry level double anyway.

06 September 2009, 05:36

Buffalobeans

quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:
quote:
Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:
I would hunt Alaska with a entry grade double like the low-end Krieghoffs and Chapuis' but not with a high-grade gun. I would rather use a bolt rifle, however.

Isn't that a bit rude.

No, a $10K Krieghoff or Chapuis isn't exactly a London Best quality firearm. I'd rather have nice quality custom bolt guns for the price of an entry level double anyway.

Pepper,
My point on being rude is that the entire "tradition" concept of Doubles, Gentlemen, Africa comes off the track when you make a wisecrack like "low end". I dont consider those low end as much as entry level and not due only to such niceties as wood, metal work and even name, but mechanical compromises, meaning as such, the K's cocking device and failure to return to safe upon opening.

BB

06 September 2009, 05:48

Pepper_Tick

quote:
Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:
quote:
Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:
I would hunt Alaska with a entry grade double like the low-end Krieghoffs and Chapuis' but not with a high-grade gun. I would rather use a bolt rifle, however.

Isn't that a bit rude.

No, a $10K Krieghoff or Chapuis isn't exactly a London Best quality firearm. I'd rather have nice quality custom bolt guns for the price of an entry level double anyway.

Pepper,
My point on being rude is that the entire "tradition" concept of Doubles, Gentlemen, Africa comes off the track when you make a wisecrack like "low end". I dont consider those low end as much as entry level and not due only to such niceties as wood, metal work and even name, but mechanical compromises, meaning as such, the K's cocking device and failure to return to safe upon opening.

BB

The cocking device on the K-gun is a serious design flaw. I can't imagine that even Hulk Hogan in his prime would have had a thumb strong enough to shoulder the rifle and cock it at the same time, in the manner one slides the tang safety forward on a proper double. Consequently, the only alternatives are to carry the gun uncocked and hope to cock it in time to take the shot (iffy in a charge situation) or carry the thing loaded and cocked. IMHO, both are unsatisfactory and unsafe alternatives. Were I a PH the last thing I would want would be to have a nervous nimrod behind me carrying one of those damned things cocked with a shell in the tube.

06 September 2009, 06:07

Buffalobeans

I've hunted with Mark Sullivan in the Selous. He laughingly won't allow one in camp (K-gun) I agree with your assesment on the cocking mechanism

30 September 2009, 05:03

raamw

Alaska is spelled
S T A I N L E S S S T E E L

Unless you are wealthly and can afford to age one quickly or have a gun bearer I would leave the double at home, bolt action is the best and safest since most guys don't chamber till just before the shot
I been up there twice and the weather condition can be rough, like snow or rain all the time.

30 September 2009, 10:30

Mike Brooks

quote:
Originally posted by raamw:
Alaska is spelled
S T A I N L E S S S T E E L

Wow! Really??
You mean I've been doing it totally wrong for 43 years already?

Versus how many weeks for you?

30 September 2009, 16:36

MikeBurke

quote:
Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:

Pepper,
My point on being rude is that the entire "tradition" concept of Doubles, Gentlemen, Africa comes off the track when you make a wisecrack like "low end". I dont consider those low end as much as entry level and not due only to such niceties as wood, metal work and even name, but mechanical compromises, meaning as such, the K's cocking device and failure to return to safe upon opening.

BB

The cocking device on the K-gun is a serious design flaw. I can't imagine that even Hulk Hogan in his prime would have had a thumb strong enough to shoulder the rifle and cock it at the same time, in the manner one slides the tang safety forward on a proper double. Consequently, the only alternatives are to carry the gun uncocked and hope to cock it in time to take the shot (iffy in a charge situation) or carry the thing loaded and cocked. IMHO, both are unsatisfactory and unsafe alternatives. Were I a PH the last thing I would want would be to have a nervous nimrod behind me carrying one of those damned things cocked with a shell in the tube.

Mechanical compromises of not returning to safe upon opening? I thought that was a huge plus. How many dangerous game doubles return to safe upon opening?

There are quite a few PH's (real PH's not if I were a PH) that carry the K-Gun. It is different, some people do not like the cocking device. Each to his own, however it is not a "serious design flaw". It does take more force to slide the cocking device forward but it is not that difficult and no slower to fire the rifle.

As far as Mark Sullivan not allowing one in his camp, after watching part of his videos it is just one more reason not to hunt with him.

This is a video of my Herculean thumb strength. I am thinking about challenging Brock Lesner to a thumb wresting match. (Sorry for posting the video, but I will miss the Shoot and Hoot and wanted to show off just a little, the smile at the end was for the 4 very nicely placed shots)

http://s135.photobucket.com/al...70Nitro200-09-19.flv

30 September 2009, 18:57

foxfire

quote:
This is a video of my Herculean thumb strength. I am thinking about challenging Brock Lesner to a thumb wresting match. (Sorry for posting the video, but I will miss the Shoot and Hoot and wanted to show off just a little, the smile at the end was for the 4 very nicely placed shots)

http://s135.photobucket.com/al...70Nitro200-09-19.flv

I love watching another LEFTY do it, it makes me look like a natural. I also have superior thumb strength as I have no trouble with the cocking lever and 4 quick shots.

30 September 2009, 23:14

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
Pepper,
My point on being rude is that the entire "tradition" concept of Doubles, Gentlemen, Africa comes off the track when you make a wisecrack like "low end". I dont consider those low end as much as entry level and not due only to such niceties as wood, metal work and even name, but mechanical compromises, meaning as such, the K's cocking device and "failure" to return to safe upon opening.

BB

BB you certainly do not want a double rifle that returns to safe when opened! Auto safeties are fine on a deer rifle, but are certainly not a desireable feature on a double rifle for dangerous game, or IMO on any double rifle, for that matter.

You would laugh your butt off if some one suggested you have an auto-safety on a bolt rifle that re-set the safety every time you worked the bolt, and it makes no more sense on a double rifle than on a bolt rifle. When you break a double to re-load after fireing the first two that doesn't get the job done, the last thing you want is a gun that has been place on safe!

Example: there was a client hunter a few years ago who had a double with an auto-safety.
He fired the right barrel, and the buff went behind a bush so he broke the rifle and re-loaded the right barrel,and as he was closeing the rifle the buff charged out of the bush at close range, the hunter shouldered his rifle pointed the rifle at the charging buff but never fire the rifle. The buff hit him killing him. After the PH killed the buff, and they inspected hie rifle to see if he had had a dud cartridge,they found the right trigger was broken off, and the rifle still loaded. THE SAFETY was still on safe. The hunter had pulled the trigger so hard he broke it off when the buff hit him. A double rifle needs to be ready to fire as soon as the action is closed just like a bolt rifle is!

As Will will most likely chime in and tell you that "my" opinion is single triggers, and auto safeties are two things that should never be fitted on a double rifle used for dangerous game. There is pleanty of time when the war is over to put your rifle on SAFE!

....................

.......

30 September 2009, 23:17

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
quote:
Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
Pepper,
My point on being rude is that the entire "tradition" concept of Doubles, Gentlemen, Africa comes off the track when you make a wisecrack like "low end". I dont consider those low end as much as entry level and not due only to such niceties as wood, metal work and even name, but mechanical compromises, meaning as such, the K's cocking device and "failure" to return to safe upon opening.

BB

That is the biggest problem with the Blaser double it has an auto safety that can't be disengaged. The Krieghoff is set properly it re-cocks when broken after fireing, and is ready to fire the instant it is closed!

BB you certainly do not want a double rifle that returns to safe when opened! Auto safeties are fine on a deer rifle, but are certainly not a desireable feature on a double rifle for dangerous game, or IMO on any double rifle, for that matter.

You would laugh your butt off if some one suggested you have an auto-safety on a bolt rifle that re-set the safety every time you worked the bolt, and it makes no more sense on a double rifle than on a bolt rifle. When you break a double to re-load after fireing the first two that doesn't get the job done, the last thing you want is a gun that has been place on safe!

Example: there was a client hunter a few years ago who had a double with an auto-safety.
He fired the right barrel, and the buff went behind a bush so he broke the rifle and re-loaded the right barrel,and as he was closeing the rifle the buff charged out of the bush at close range, the hunter shouldered his rifle pointed the rifle at the charging buff but never fire the rifle. The buff hit him killing him. After the PH killed the buff, and they inspected hie rifle to see if he had had a dud cartridge,they found the right trigger was broken off, and the rifle still loaded. THE SAFETY was still on safe. The hunter had pulled the trigger so hard he broke it off when the buff hit him. A double rifle needs to be ready to fire as soon as the action is closed just like a bolt rifle is!

As Will will most likely chime in and tell you that "my" opinion is single triggers, and auto safeties are two things that should never be fitted on a double rifle used for dangerous game. There is pleanty of time when the war is over to put your rifle on SAFE!

.................... .......

30 September 2009, 23:43

MikeBurke

quote:
The Krieghoff is set properly it re-cocks when broken after fireing, and is ready to fire the instant it is closed!

Mac,

You used the words Krieghoff and proper in same sentence, are you becoming a K-Gun convert?

01 October 2009, 00:18

DuggaBoye

quote:
Originally posted by Pepper_Tick:
The cocking device on the K-gun is a serious design flaw. I can't imagine that even Hulk Hogan in his prime would have had a thumb strong enough to shoulder the rifle and cock it at the same time, in the manner one slides the tang safety forward on a proper double. Consequently, the only alternatives are to carry the gun uncocked and hope to cock it in time to take the shot (iffy in a charge situation) or carry the thing loaded and cocked.

You my fine fellow make an ignorant statement.

Having carried and used a 500NE K gun for 14 years--
and Hulk Hogan , I am not.

You move the actuator forward as you mount the rifle , all in one fluid motion as with a quail gun on a covey rise.