Trouble with a Searcy Double

20 October 2006, 18:03

Safaris Botswana Bound

Butch
The ammo was from Steve
Unless fired the gun closes fine
The top lever is fine at all times - but does not centre
Primers fine do not extrude
The rifle when fired ( sometimes) opens half way and jams -does not go either way until cool.
Brass fits fine after being fired
When cool no problem with dropping shells in , once fired also Ok - its the opening and ejecting that fails.
The barrels are spotless - avid cleaner

Thank you for asking these questions now - it would have been great if we had this conversation in your booth and avoided a public debate .

Graeme Pollock

20 October 2006, 19:00

Idaho Sharpshooter

SBB,

sounds like you have a real dangerous piece of junk there. I will be over in the late springtime. What say I give you $500 and relieve you of the burden and onus of ownership...? I will get it back to Butch for repairs, and bring it back in two years on my next trip and you can trade me a Cape Buffalo for it back?

As far as the knife edge trigger guard, have you the mechanical aptitude to operate a file? Maybe sandpaper? As far as the rest of it, aren't there any reputable gunsmiths in Africa? With the internet, a conversation between a gunsmith and Butch is a ten minutes at the keyboard solution away.

I really would love to see Butch with the rifle...it would be fascinating to have him relate the actual problem(s) with the double.

I do understand your frustration. Just a couple days ago, after reading of Butch's new single shot and the fact that he would not be using the inventory of actions, I offered to take a couple off his hands. Even offered to pay the postage if necessary. I got the same type of response you did. Sheesh!!

regards,

Rich

20 October 2006, 19:22

Butch Searcy

Graeme,
I'm very confident what caused the problem, and the only way to fix it is to get it to me. Apply for an export permit for repair now. I can repair the problem while your here and get it back to you in time to take it back with you.

Now a little advice to all double rifle owners old or new. Always take note of the position of the top lever when the rifle is unloaded and closed. If when you load the rifle you find that the top lever dosen't go back to the position when unloaded then you have an ammo problem. Also prior to leaving on a hunt take the barrels off the action and try each and every one of the cartridges that you intend to take on the hunt by dropping them into the chambers. If they don't drop all the way in level with the breach end of the barrels then cull that round.

Graeme take the barrels off the action. Look at the rear bite on the barrels. If the rifle didn't close all the way the edge of that bite will be rounded off. If this is the case, then the rifle dosen't have enough metal to hold the bite properly locked down.

Remedy is the heli arc the bites and refit the barrels to the action. This is only a half day job.
Now it would be better if you got in touch with me direct, this has gone to far on an open forum. Can't help you nor me.
searcy@ccis.com
I will take care of your rifle.
Regards
Butch

20 October 2006, 22:36

Dutch44

Sounds like a winner to me. End of story.

Dutch

Held center this morning and missed.

21 October 2006, 00:28

Jim Manion

Butch - just curious - was this caused by an ammo problem?

Graeme - got to watch those Cannucks!

Seriously, I wonder if this was a pressure issue caused by temperature extremes. Steve lives in Canada, where any day above zero is a hot spell. He takes the double to Africa, where any day under 100 is a cold snap. I know with some of my rifles (the 338 Lapua in particular), temperature extremes can play hell with accuracy and pressure.

The only modern powder I have found so far that is relatively temperature indifferent is the 4831sc. But I say relatively.

At our DRSS shoot this summer, the Knyoch factory load I shot in 577's "Great Balls of Fire" 577 Nitro (It shook my nerves and rattled my brain) seemed a might stiff. That day was 100 degrees plus.

A load that shoots fine in 40 degree F weather is going to get a little angry with a 50 degree temperature increase.

21 October 2006, 10:12

700 nitro

i did all my load delvelopment at 75 deg at a indoor rang that gose up to 75 yards.

using imr4831 i belive.

21 October 2006, 10:13

700 nitro

ps grame i may want to come back could you email me a up to date price list or pm me.

21 October 2006, 23:36

Idaho Sharpshooter

And I spoke with Butch that day...he says the actions are just a casting...not worth the time to complete...and likely not up to his high standards either. Soooooooooooo, no freebie this week for him. I really admire the guy.

Rich

22 October 2006, 00:47

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by 700 nitro:
ps grame i may want to come back could you email me a up to date price list or pm me.

Maybe you could return the rifle to Butch on Graeme's behalf.

22 October 2006, 00:56

700 nitro

i had thought of that it wouldnt be a problem with me

glad to help out.

it probably would be faster for grame to bring it back in january since i dont get my new elephant gun till may-june.....and if im going to africa a elephant is going to get s

22 October 2006, 01:23

Hammer

Can't be that big of a problem taking rifles from Botswana to the U.S.

My experience there with a Searcy double was the government folks couldn't tell a shotgun from a rifle and couldn't read the caliber markings anyway.

22 October 2006, 04:15

surestrike

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Butch - just curious - was this caused by an ammo problem?

Jim,

I don't want to answer for Butch but. In general the problem Butch is describing comes from an improperly sized case. If the shoulder dimensions are off a bit the case will not properly seat into the chamber causing it to be a bit long.

When that happens the action will not close all the way causing the metal on the edges of the bites to get rounded off when the rifle is fired.

I'm sure Butch can give a better scientific description but that is how I understand it to work.

22 October 2006, 05:55

Butch Searcy

Surestrike is right, and that is why earlier I gave the details for checking the top lever and the ammo to be used.

22 October 2006, 20:24

iamgene

quote:
Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
Surestrike is right, and that is why earlier I gave the details for checking the top lever and the ammo to be used.

These same details/instructions were given to me by Butch when I picked up my PH in Boron.

Actually been doing this for years for Service Rifle rounds (check for proper chambering), as "Ringers" show up once in awhile...

05 December 2006, 17:02

Safaris Botswana Bound

Have finaly completed the hunting season in Mozambique and visited this site.
The ammo was firstly from Steve and now that this is mentioned I also purchased Kynoch ammo in spain - this ammo has not caused any problems but have only shot 4 rounds ( at $38-00 a round ) , I have had a very experienced PH who used to also own a gun shop look at the firearm and he found no evident fault in its cold state , his only recommendation is to get rid of a dangerous gun that is a critical tool to backing up clients in life threatening situations , this is easier said than done as gun permits are scarce in Botswana and the selling of the gun means selling the license and for those who are not aware in Botswana no new licenses are being given so I would have to purchase an existing firearm with its license and then hand in the firearm for destruction and get the license transferred to the new imported gun. Mr. Searcy advised me at the show the .500 retails for $14 500-00 , so any person in the previuos critical responses to me are welcome to take over this product they so strongly support for the $14 500-00 less 25% - talk is cheap money buys the whiskey.
All the best and happy hunting
Graeme Pollock

05 December 2006, 19:49

Butch Searcy

Graeme, I never told you that the PH rifle was worth $14,500.00. In fact the rifle you have was purchased for $9500.00. Now I take it that you arn't going to bother with getting the paper work done to bring it out of Botswana to me for repair. This isn't that hard to do. In fact Johan Calitz is bringing his sidelock I built him 10 years ago out for refurbishing in January 07. If you sold the rifle to someone you would have to get the paper done anyhow. I would also ask you this question, what makes you think that any PH or store owner is qualified to evaluate a double rifle. There are very few out there with that ability and knowledge.

05 December 2006, 22:28

N E 450 No2

If it was MY rifle, and I was in Bots, [or any other African country where getting the rifle in and out is a problem] I would shoot it some more with the factory ammo I could get and or, load some ammo my self and shoot it some more. It could be simply an ammo problem.

It would be worth it to me to spend a couple of hundred dollars on ammo to test the rifle out.
I would shoot at least a couple of hundred rounds through any rifle before I hunted DG with it.

06 December 2006, 02:20

577NitroExpress

I stand by my original post of August 16 that this is a bullshit post by someone who wants to make ZERO effort to get the gun into the proper hands for review and, if necessary, fixing.

This reminds me of the line from Gunnery Sargent Hartman in the movie "Full Metal Jacket:"

"Oh that's right, Private Pyle, don't make any f***ing effort to get to the top of the f***ing obstacle. If God would have wanted you up there he would have miracled your ass up there by now, wouldn't he?"

Butch, I guess you need to miracle this guys gun back to Boron, 'cause it sure doesn't sound like he's making any effort on his end.

06 December 2006, 04:47

Idaho Sharpshooter

Back to bullshit again...fromout of africa.
Personally, if I get to hunt in botswana I am going to make sure this bozo is not within 100 miles or me...looks like a very loose cannon.

Butch, I think you need to open a warranty store in Africa. I volunteer to go and will work cheap...and take it in trade.

Rich

06 December 2006, 05:36

Snowwolfe

Ship the rifle to Searcy to have it fixed or drop it. Your postings are meaningless

06 December 2006, 18:18

Rusty

quote:
talk is cheap money buys the whiskey.

Just a minor note. . .It's spelled whisky.
As in Single Malt Scotch Whisky.

And since it's a problem firearm, that can't be used for dangerous game hunts, tell ya what I'll do!
If you get the rifle to the United States of America. I have $5,000 USD I'll be glad to give you for your POS rifle! I'd really hate for you to be seen with a sack-of-shit rifle.
And I'll buy the Whisky!

Rusty
We Band of Brothers!
DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member
"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
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06 December 2006, 19:55

577NitroExpress

quote:
Just a minor note. . .It's spelled whisky.

no it ain't, it's spelled Whiskey as in

Jack Daniels WHISKEY

What's that other Single malt crap you are talking about?

06 December 2006, 20:04

ErikD

According to Wikipedia you are all correct (kind of like the Special Olympics where there are no winners or loosers!

)

quote:
Names and spellings

Whisky comes from the Gaelic uisge/uisce beatha (IPA: [ÉªÊƒkÊ²É™ bÊ²ahÉ™]) meaning "water of life", possibly modelled on the Latin phrase aqua vitae. The spelling whisky (plural whiskies) is generally used for whiskies distilled in Scotland, Wales, Canada, and Japan, while whiskey is used for the spirits distilled in Ireland. A 1968 directive of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives specifies "whisky" as the official U.S. spelling, but allows labeling as "whiskey" in deference to tradition; most U.S. producers still use the latter spelling. A mnemonic used to remember which spelling is used is that "Ireland" and "United States" have at least one "e" in their names, while "Scotland", "Canada" and "Japan" do not. International law reserves the term "Scotch whisky" to those whiskies produced in Scotland. Whiskies produced in other countries may not use the terms Scots, Scotch, Scotland, or Scottish. Similar conventions exist for "Irish whiskey", "Canadian whisky", and "bourbon whiskey". In North America and parts of Continental Europe, the abbreviated term "Scotch" is usually used for "Scotch whisky". In England, Scotland, and Wales, the term "whisky" almost always refers to "Scotch whisky", and the term "Scotch" is rarely used by itself. In Welsh the forms wisgi, wysgi and chwisgi are all used. Craythur is another term for whiskey in Ireland.

06 December 2006, 20:06

ramrod340

quote:
As in Single Malt Scotch Whisky.

quote:
Jack Daniels WHISKEY

Hey I must be weird. I spell it both ways. Depending on the mood I go either way. Be that Whisky or Whiskey, blonds or brunettes(that one depends on my wifes color of the month)

Is that cleared 577??

06 December 2006, 20:16

577NitroExpress

quote:
Depending on the mood I go either way.

You may want to change that post...I read it a different way

06 December 2006, 20:19

Rusty

I will accept the spelling of whisky when it is association with

Life is too short to drink bad Whiskey!

06 December 2006, 21:57

Brain1

Get a life guys. Just drink the stuff and quit worrying how you spell it.

06 December 2006, 22:54

500grains

This issue seems resolved. Butch will find out if it is a problem with the gun or the ammo if only he can get access to the gun, and has pledged to fix any problem as he does for all customers. Graeme needs to go through the unpleasant red tape of getting the gun to Butch, unless he can rule out a problem with the gun by testing it with factory ammo as Tony suggested. Otherwise, a $9500 rifle is likely to lie idle.

06 December 2006, 23:48

577NitroExpress

quote:
Originally posted by Brain1:
Get a life guys. Just drink the stuff and quit worrying how you spell it.

Obviously, Brain, you don't understand that this is all in good humor and we are just breaking balls. That's what makes this group so much fun.

So laugh in life a little more, will ya?

07 December 2006, 00:14

Rusty

Brain1,
We're all friends just rag'n on each other!

07 December 2006, 06:48

Idaho Sharpshooter

For the first time in a long time, more's the pity; I find myself in complete, 100% agreement with 500 grains.

Send/bring the damn rifle to the US for Butch to repair or shut the fuggup!!!

Rich

08 December 2006, 08:16

surestrike

I can tell you one thing for sure. I have dealt with Butch's rifles and his customer service. Both are above reproach.

Butch has the most no B.S. customer service in the country if not the world. If it's broke he fixes it. Of course you have to get the darn rifle to his shop first DUHHH!

The ironic thing is that Graeme started this post with the intent of warning the world at large about the evils of the Butch Searcy Rifle company. What he has in fact accomplished is to inform the members of this forum about a whiney small boy PH with totally unreal expectations!

Thank you for the heads up. I now know about one safari company and one PH in particular that I will never do business with.

Thanks in advance Graeme, for saving me tons of trouble and possible a great sum of money.

08 December 2006, 18:48

Brain1

577 & Rusty
I know you guys are just giving each other a hard time. Fortunately most on the DR thread have thick skin and don't get their panties in a knot over every little thing that comes down the road. We do, unfortunately, have exceptions to this.

11 December 2006, 02:10

driftwood

When I read the original post it caused me to pause since I have a Searcy on order. But then I looked at Butch closely before I placed that large deposit down and thought there is something wrong here. The comments by others reinforces my initial feeling of complete trust in Butch's products. We always find detractors and how one reacts to another is a reflection of there own way of thinking. If you see one you know him personally, its yourself.