360#2., needing Sage advice

23 March 2014, 21:10

lb404

I bought an English double a number of years ago after a very long sebatical from double rifles. The main reason was the LOP of the rifle and fit were nearly perfect for me. All of the others were way too long and I hated to destroy the value of a fine double. I have bullets brass and dies and am ready to load for the gun. A number of years ago I discuss the loading of my rifle. The first step was to fire form brass. Is that really necessary? If my rounds fit the chamber won't a loaded round do the same? It does when I fire form cases in an ackley chamber.??? Don't want to harm the rifle, however in the day of powder and primer shortages it seems wasteful!!

23 March 2014, 21:19

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by lb404:
I bought an English double a number of years ago after a very long sebatical from double rifles. The main reason was the LOP of the rifle and fit were nearly perfect for me. All of the others were way too long and I hated to destroy the value of a fine double. I have bullets brass and dies and am ready to load for the gun. A number of years ago I discuss the loading of my rifle. The first step was to fire form brass. Is that really necessary? If my rounds fit the chamber won't a loaded round do the same? It does when I fire form cases in an ackley chamber.??? Don't want to harm the rifle, however in the day of powder and primer shortages it seems wasteful!!

Ib404, you are correct! The cartridge head spaces on the rim, so there is no need for fire-forming! If however you have not loaded for this rifle before I recommend reducing the published load by 5% to start and work up till the rifle shoots to regulation. The 5% reduction will fire-form the cases with the first shot so there after you can neck size only.

..................Have fun!

23 March 2014, 21:21

Grumulkin

I presume the brass is the brass meant for that rifle? If so, there is no need to fire form it. In fact there are a lot of wildcat cartridges that can be fired in the chamber of the gun they are derived from without fireforming. A couple would be the 223 AI and the 30/30 AI. Plain old 223 Remington and 30/30 Winchester respectively can be shot in them with no problem; the fired cases will come out fire formed.

A little more detail on the cartridge and rifle chambering would be helpful.

23 March 2014, 21:27

BrettAKSCI

I had and then sold one 2 years ago. The only brass I'm aware of is Bertram. It is woefully undersized. I couldn't fire form them without the cases splitting, so I had to anneal them first and then fire form the brass. That worked fine and I was able to then go through the normal reloading process. Like I said the Bertram brass is woefully undersized. So much so that I had chamber casts done of my rifle which proved to be fine.

Brett

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And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
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23 March 2014, 21:40

lb404

I have 100-+ rounds of the Bertram brass. It is undersized. If it needs to be annealed prior it loading, what is the proper way? I obviously do not want to a
Waste expensive brass by being unprepared?

23 March 2014, 22:01

Double BC

Lb 404,

I use a small butane or propane torch, hold the bras at its base (just above the rim)with bare hands.I then roll the case in the flame (about 1" from the case mouth) until I cant hold it anymore, be carful once it starts getting warm it gets HOT very quickly. Then set it down standing up and allow it to cool on its own.

23 March 2014, 22:25

lb404

Thank you for the advice. I can do that easy enough. Are there any other issues. I load for my 470 nitro express. It was factory regulated for federal ammo so I bought 5 boxes. Have not shot them all yet. I also have 300-400 flat nose solids to reload with.

On the 60 #2, how would you load swift 300gr. A frames as a go to bullet?

24 March 2014, 00:10

MacD37

The ”HANDLOADER’S MANUAL OF CARTRITGE CONVERSIONS” states on page 442 that

quote:
the 360#2 nitro express cases can be made from 450NE brass (BELL) . Trim the case to proper length,chamfer, anneal, and F/L size in a 360#2 die.

I have found Bertram brass often needs annealing. It seems a little brittle to me!

....................

24 March 2014, 04:20

lb404

Thank you for the information. Will hornady 450 N.E.brass work as we'll?

24 March 2014, 06:15

BrettAKSCI

I had a 9"x13" baking pan. I placed the cartridges in there standing upright. I then put an inch of water in the pain. I used a torch to heat them until they started to get orangish and then knock them over into the water to cool.

Brett

24 March 2014, 09:06

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by lb404:
Thank you for the information. Will hornady 450 N.E.brass work as well?

The 450NE brass came in two different rim thickness, so take any 450NE brass and put into the chamber rim first, and see if the rim thickness matches the depth of the rim cut in your chambers. If it does then you can use it the way the book recommends regardless of the brand.

BrettAKSCI is correct on the annealing! standing brass in water up to where you want to anneal and heating then tipped over into the water was the way I was taught to anneal brass. Nonferrous metal becomes more brittle when air cooled, and softer more pliable when quenched. opposite from ferrous metal.

.......................................................................................

24 March 2014, 09:14

lb404

Thank you very much for the information.

24 March 2014, 17:21

DoubleDon

Yes, you must anneal the Bertram cases or they will split. I hold the cases near the rim and turn while heating with a torch on the neck and shoulder. When they begin to turn red (can't hold them any longer), drop them in a pan of water.

Afterward, I fire form all of my .360 No. 2 cases. Primed case with 7 1/2 grains of Bullseye below 40 grains of kitty litter topped off with 2 squares ( 1 square Charmin) TP. Shoot up in the air and the whole mess will come out the muzzle.

BTW, congrats on a great cartridge!

24 March 2014, 22:12

lb404

Thanks all for the help. Always used factory ammo I bought from George even though I roll my own for all the calibers I shoot.

25 March 2014, 10:48

lb404

My rifle was made by Manton on webley long bar action. An extracted gun with chopper lump barrels. I bought it only because it was the first double rifle that actually fit me. LOP right at 14" with 3/4" recoil pad. I love the clambering. I have 5 rifles in 9.3. Four in 9.3-62, two in 9.3-64. And now the 360#2. Really looking forward to getting to the shooting stage. My rifle is a clone to the one in the picture with the addition of scroll engraving everywhere.

05 April 2014, 04:20

lb404

Is there another powder I can substitute for bullseye? I have not been able to find any bullseye at 4 gun shows! I also need a starting load for 320 gr. bullets. If anyone can help with loads for recommended loads for me to try, let me know.

05 April 2014, 19:23

Huvius

I am at 79gr of H4831 in my Greener.
Shoots as good as I can offhand.

I formed my Bertram brass (annealed of course) with a full load and 320gr bullets.
Looking back, I should have used cheaper 286gr 9.3mm bullets for the forming.

06 April 2014, 09:22

BayouBob

Woodleigh will email you a couple of loads to get started. They will be with Australian powders but you can probably figure out which powders they are similar to.

06 April 2014, 17:21

DoubleDon

My rifle is a Joseph Lang finished in 1906. I load 66 gr. RL15 below a Barnes 320 gr. SP with 2 gr. Dacron filler. The prior owner used 60 gr. 4064 below a 320 gr. Barnes. Hope this helps.

07 April 2014, 22:17

lb404

Thanks for the tips on starting loads for my 360#2. If I want fire form my annealed Bertram cases, what powders can I use? I have looked for Bullseye powder at 4 gun shows and have been unsuccessful at locating any??

08 April 2014, 02:44

DoubleDon

You can also use Unique. About 10-12 grains with a magnum primer.

13 April 2014, 07:29

lb404

Thank you very much!
Leonard

03 May 2014, 04:12

lb404

Another wrinkle, i can only get 300 gr Swift bullets at this time. Which powder and what weight of powder should i use for the 300 gr. Swift??
Leonard

03 May 2014, 05:23

lb404

quote:
Originally posted by DoubleDon:
My rifle is a Joseph Lang finished in 1906. I load 66 gr. RL15 below a Barnes 320 gr. SP with 2 gr. Dacron filler. The prior owner used 60 gr. 4064 below a 320 gr. Barnes. Hope this helps.

I am not able to locate 320 Woodleighs. Am going to start with 300 Swift A frames. Would 66 gr. RL 15 suffice for a starting load? Any filler?
leonard

03 May 2014, 20:37

BrettAKSCI

quote:
Originally posted by lb404:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleDon:
My rifle is a Joseph Lang finished in 1906. I load 66 gr. RL15 below a Barnes 320 gr. SP with 2 gr. Dacron filler. The prior owner used 60 gr. 4064 below a 320 gr. Barnes. Hope this helps.

I am not able to locate 320 Woodleighs. Am going to start with 300 Swift A frames. Would 66 gr. RL 15 suffice for a starting load? Any filler?
leonard

Have you looked at Graff and Sons, Huntington Reloading Supply, and Midway USA?

Brett