New HEYM "Jaeger" Double Rifle

11 September 2012, 08:38

mdstewart

Wow,

I'm almost afraid to weigh in here. My take is simple; the Heym double rifle in any configuration is a classy gun, extremely well-regulated, appropriate weight for cartridge, and can be configured to meet one's standards.

I do think they are a little over-priced for what is included. But that's just me. Others will differ. I would love to own a Heym in .450 at 9.5-10 lbs. As Danny DeVito said, "Money talks and b.s. walks." I like Chris and I like Heym, I just think they're a little over-priced.

A Heym entry level DR for $10,000 seems about right. Not $13,000.

By the way, I've shot several Heyms and I love them. The regulation is as good as any DR in history with the possible exception of Searcy.

We are lucky to have so many choices now in the $8500-$15,000 range for a DR. Thanks to Heym, Merkel, Chapuis, Kreighoff, etc for making it easier for many of us to own a DR.

11 September 2012, 09:28

PD999

quote:
Originally posted by mdstewart:
Thanks to Heym, Merkel, Chapuis, Kreighoff, etc for making it easier for many of us to own a DR.

11 September 2012, 17:33

Supercracker

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Wilde:
What exactly are intercepting sears and how could one tell by examining a double if they are present?

I've been curious about this for some time. Thanks.

http://www.hallowellco.com/intercepting_sear.htm

in a nutshell. It's a lever that physically blocks the hammer from falling until the trigger is pulled.

11 September 2012, 21:30

Dave Bush

Now see, if you would just buy a Krieghoff or a Blaser, you wouldn't have to worry about intercepting sears

11 September 2012, 22:21

Bockhunter

quote:
or a Blaser,

In German internet forums we read the story that Blasers double, the S 2, will go out of production in the near future...

11 September 2012, 23:46

Dave Bush

Todd:

PM sent.

12 September 2012, 22:11

Todd Williams

Just got the official word on the price of Intercepting Sears from VC.

$1,250 for Intercepting Sears
$2,500 for Intercepting Sears AND Stalking Safety

13 September 2012, 01:12

new_guy

I'm reminded of the commercial about the $6.00 haircut.

13 September 2012, 02:18

CCMDoc

quote:
Originally posted by new_guy:
I'm reminded of the commercial about the $6.00 haircut.

Chris,
I don't think I've seen that - what's the gist of it?

13 September 2012, 17:47

jorge

quote:
Originally posted by CCMDoc:
quote:
Originally posted by new_guy:
I'm reminded of the commercial about the $6.00 haircut.

Chris,
I don't think I've seen that - what's the gist of it?

Doc: I can address the six dollar haircut analogy as I've been getting those for many years whilst I was on active duty and with a little help from Confucious (a picture's worth a thousand words)it goes something like this: More expensive haircuts must be better than six dollar ones because they cost more.....

And for those who like pictures:

http://www.chrissells.com/gunpics/heym_target_a.jpg
http://www.chrissells.com/gunp...m_target_a.jpg[/url]

Or someone a lot smarter than me put it this way:

"There are two ways of trying to make yourself look good. The first way is simply by being good(As NO DOUBT both Heym and VC are). The second is trying to make someone else look bad. The latter usually succeed in making themselves look like asses in the long run."

jorge

13 September 2012, 19:04

Todd Williams

Yea, the term "haircut" does seem to be appropriate here, considering it costs about $6K to finish the gun!

13 September 2012, 19:15

new_guy

quote:
Originally posted by CCMDoc:
quote:
Originally posted by new_guy:
I'm reminded of the commercial about the $6.00 haircut.

Chris,
I don't think I've seen that - what's the gist of it?

That cost is only one variable, but a lot of buying emphasis is put on what is least expensive.

13 September 2012, 19:18

new_guy

I didn't mean to upset you Jorge, and we appreciate your service to our country.

I think you've made the perfect purchase decision because you are happy with it. In the end, that's all that really matters; that you are happy with how you spent your money.

13 September 2012, 19:22

new_guy

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Yea, the term "haircut" does seem to be appropriate here, considering it costs about $6K to finish the gun!

Which gun?

13 September 2012, 19:37

jorge

quote:
Originally posted by new_guy:
I didn't mean to upset you Jorge, and we appreciate your service to our country.

I think you've made the perfect purchase decision because you are happy with it. In the end, that's all that really matters; that you are happy with how you spent your money.

Chris: If I'm not on fire, or I have gooks in the wire, nothing really upsets me much anymore (I take that back, idiots that vote democrap do), but your "haircut" comment was in my view, aside from being flat wrong, not nessesary. I visited your both many times as well as the rest of the other GREAT double rifle makers. You have a great product and so does Verney-Carron...

Edited to add: After reading Todd's last post, which I totally agree with, any insinuation there's an ounce of difference in quality between a VC or a Heym is seriously delusional...

13 September 2012, 19:52

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by new_guy:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Yea, the term "haircut" does seem to be appropriate here, considering it costs about $6K to finish the gun!

Which gun?

PH to Safari. I know the Heym 88-B PH is a fine gun. No doubts about it at all Chris. But the gun looks unfinished to me. To properly finish it, you have to jump to the "Safari" which cost $6,000 more.

This has actually gone further than I wanted to take it Chris because I like you and the Heym guns. I got on this thread in the first place because folks were throwing around $2K for ejectors and $3K for Intercepting Sears when in fact they just don't cost that much to add to the guns. If people are willing to pay that for them to have the name, who the hell am I to say otherwise?

I was just trying to provide some perspective as to cost and price as I thought you were trying to offer a Heym gun that better competes with the entry level guns. No doubt that your Jaeger will be a fine rifle as it has the internals that made the name, but at $13,000, it is really competing with VC, not Merkel and Kreighoff. And if you are competing with VC, the Jaeger as described isn't offering the options and aesthetics that are available in the VC lineup.

13 September 2012, 20:51

DuggaBoye

So- really this is like-

Mercedes or BMW
vs
Peugeot or Renault

All build cars in various similar sizes/types-

but with differences- in features and engineering-

German engineering and production-
vs
French engineering and production-

The market chooses-

So-

we get a choice--

Sounds great to me

13 September 2012, 21:35

jorge

See my post above, you know the delusional part, that way you'll make more sense when you follow that logic with British made doubles, you know they build British cars or maybe Berettas; Or wait, maybe we can get the japs to build doubles!

14 September 2012, 20:34

D R Hunter

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by D R Hunter:
I think that LionHunter is not "getting" that there are guys really wanting a Heym D/R,
and they just earn a certain amount of money per year, and they are scrimping and saving,
and now they have an option that's two-thousand dollars less, AND THAT IS A WHOLE LOT OF
MONEY FOR SOME GUYS!. (Maybe not to guys who have been able to pay for 5 or 10 or more
African D/G hunting trips, but to a guy who hopes to do ONE Cape Buff hunt in his life,
then go back to his local forest for his annual deer hunting two grand could make or break
his dream.)

It seems to me that you are not "getting" that LionHunter is actually trying to help the type of fellow you are describing. For the fellow in the financial position you are describing, one of the less expensive DR's would probably be a better choice. Rifles such as the Merkel, Kreighoff, Chapuis, etc would help that guy afford his hunt quicker or possibly allow him to take a few extra species while still doing his dream hunt with a quality DR. Mike is pointing out that at $13,000, the rifle really isn't competing with the the entry level guns. A good used Merkel or K-Gun can be had for around $7,500. That's $5,500 less than this basic Heym. Of course, talking new to new comparisons, the new entry level Heym is about $2,500 higher. Again, in your example, that $2,500 could provide for a bit larger safari, or a good head start on his next as there really is no such thing as just one!

At $13,000, it really will come down to how much value one puts on intercepting sears and / or the Heym name.

I'm not saying in any way shape or form that the entry level Heym Chris is introducing isn't a great gun and worth every penny. But, for roughly the same money, you can get a pretty nice VC with CCH, some engraving, ejectors, and a choice of calibers and barrel lengths, built to your personal measurements. The Heym at this price is limited to the 450NE 3.25" and 26" Barrels, no CCH, extractors, a set LOP, but it has the intercepting sears. I understand Mike's point that at $13K, the Heym is really competing with a VC that has more options and more embellishments and the offsetting feature is the intercepting sears. It really isn't competing with the Merkel, K-Gun, and the like at that price point.

To Todd,
First, while I'm a new poster, I've been reading this forum for 6 or 7 years. I've seen threads
go into WARS over little differences of opinion a zillion times here. I intended no insult to
Lion Hunter by using the phase:
I think that LionHunter is not "getting" that there are guys really wanting a Heym D/R,...
Now above in bold is a repeat of my first sentence in this thread. The RED section is what I'd
like to draw your attention to Todd. See, you responded to my opinion by saying the guy I de-
scribed should just go with another brand and leave Heym behind.
{Here are your words: For the fellow in the financial position you are describing, one of the less
expensive DR's would probably be a better choice. Rifles such as the Merkel, Kreighoff, Chapuis,
etc would help that guy afford his hunt quicker or...} You are ignoring that RED part above with that
opinion because MY imaginary guy has decided a HEYM is what he wants; and he's saving as best as he
can to get a HEYM. This model that Chris is offering is less costly by thousands of dollars compared
to any other new HEYM. So, if a guy wants HEYM and he's not able to to go 15K, maybe he can now be a
HEYM owner because he has accumulated 13K. That's all my point was meant to be. If it was a single
dollar less for this new model than the PH costs it would still be LESS. We're talking about 2K. And to
some guys that's a lot of additional money that they don't need to fork over to become HEYM owners.

15 September 2012, 05:11

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by D R Hunter:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by D R Hunter:
I think that LionHunter is not "getting" that there are guys really wanting a Heym D/R,
and they just earn a certain amount of money per year, and they are scrimping and saving,
and now they have an option that's two-thousand dollars less, AND THAT IS A WHOLE LOT OF
MONEY FOR SOME GUYS!. (Maybe not to guys who have been able to pay for 5 or 10 or more
African D/G hunting trips, but to a guy who hopes to do ONE Cape Buff hunt in his life,
then go back to his local forest for his annual deer hunting two grand could make or break
his dream.)

It seems to me that you are not "getting" that LionHunter is actually trying to help the type of fellow you are describing. For the fellow in the financial position you are describing, one of the less expensive DR's would probably be a better choice. Rifles such as the Merkel, Kreighoff, Chapuis, etc would help that guy afford his hunt quicker or possibly allow him to take a few extra species while still doing his dream hunt with a quality DR. Mike is pointing out that at $13,000, the rifle really isn't competing with the the entry level guns. A good used Merkel or K-Gun can be had for around $7,500. That's $5,500 less than this basic Heym. Of course, talking new to new comparisons, the new entry level Heym is about $2,500 higher. Again, in your example, that $2,500 could provide for a bit larger safari, or a good head start on his next as there really is no such thing as just one!

At $13,000, it really will come down to how much value one puts on intercepting sears and / or the Heym name.

I'm not saying in any way shape or form that the entry level Heym Chris is introducing isn't a great gun and worth every penny. But, for roughly the same money, you can get a pretty nice VC with CCH, some engraving, ejectors, and a choice of calibers and barrel lengths, built to your personal measurements. The Heym at this price is limited to the 450NE 3.25" and 26" Barrels, no CCH, extractors, a set LOP, but it has the intercepting sears. I understand Mike's point that at $13K, the Heym is really competing with a VC that has more options and more embellishments and the offsetting feature is the intercepting sears. It really isn't competing with the Merkel, K-Gun, and the like at that price point.

To Todd,
First, while I'm a new poster, I've been reading this forum for 6 or 7 years. I've seen threads
go into WARS over little differences of opinion a zillion times here. I intended no insult to
Lion Hunter by using the phase:
I think that LionHunter is not "getting" that there are guys really wanting a Heym D/R,...
Now above in bold is a repeat of my first sentence in this thread. The RED section is what I'd
like to draw your attention to Todd. See, you responded to my opinion by saying the guy I de-
scribed should just go with another brand and leave Heym behind.
{Here are your words: For the fellow in the financial position you are describing, one of the less
expensive DR's would probably be a better choice. Rifles such as the Merkel, Kreighoff, Chapuis,
etc would help that guy afford his hunt quicker or...} You are ignoring that RED part above with that
opinion because MY imaginary guy has decided a HEYM is what he wants; and he's saving as best as he
can to get a HEYM. This model that Chris is offering is less costly by thousands of dollars compared
to any other new HEYM. So, if a guy wants HEYM and he's not able to to go 15K, maybe he can now be a
HEYM owner because he has accumulated 13K. That's all my point was meant to be. If it was a single
dollar less for this new model than the PH costs it would still be LESS. We're talking about 2K. And to
some guys that's a lot of additional money that they don't need to fork over to become HEYM owners.

If he wants a Heym and the new gun offers him a way to do so financially, then by all means he should get himself a Heym and be happy. No arguments from me on that.

That said, I don't see the validity in your logic.