The Accurate Reloading Forums
Ok, what is the deal on the Elmer Keith Double in GB?
18 May 2007, 07:11
GeoffM24Ok, what is the deal on the Elmer Keith Double in GB?
I didn't want to out someone's find the first go around but since it closed $11,000 shy of the reserve I thought I'd ask some questions.
If it isn't worth $25,000, what is it worth? Seems like a gorgeous rifle. Is there something that I'm not seeing about this gun? Is it just overpriced?
Thanks!
Jeffery 450/400 double auctionKieth is not an important enough name to add much value.
Rifle has been recently restocked.
The rifle will have to stand on it's own.
16-19k.
Lousy pictures for a rifle that is that expensive.
Gator
A Proud Member of the Obamanation
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2
"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." George Orwell
IRRC, I think Elmer wrote about this particular rifle in a very negative sense. I don't think even "HE" could get it to regulate.
For $25K I would expect much better pictures!!
quote:
Originally posted by AzGuy:
If I remember correctly, I think Elmer wrote about this particular rifle in a very negative sense. I don't think even "HE" could get it to regulate.
For $25K I would expect much better pictures!!
18 May 2007, 09:45
400 Nitro Expressquote:
Originally posted by GeoffM24:
I didn't want to out someone's find the first go around but since it closed $11,000 shy of the reserve I thought I'd ask some questions.
If it isn't worth $25,000, what is it worth? Seems like a gorgeous rifle. Is there something that I'm not seeing about this gun? Is it just overpriced?
Thanks!
Jeffery 450/400 double auction
It's just overpriced.
The guy obviously doesn't know how to market it. The photos are so bad that you can't even tell what grade it is. I'm guessing it's a number 2 grade. Without provenance, it's just another Jeffery .400 boxlock. Most are aware that Jeffery was strictly a retailer, and built no guns at all. Jeffery's best double rifles came from Harry Leonard in Birmingham, and the lesser quality guns from others. Impossible to tell from the photos, but the screw-grip fore-end fastener suggests that this is not a Leonard. Can't tell from the description what kind of condition it's in. In new, unfired condition, with a case in top shape, $25,000 might be realistic. In high original condition showing the signs of modest use, $18,500 would be in the ball park. I have a Leonard gun myself, with mint bores and prettier wood, that won't be for sale in my lifetime - unless some idiot offers me $25,000 for it.
Assuming that the Keith provenance can be proved, I'm not sure that's worth much of a premium. I'm one of Elmer's biggest fans, but it's just another DR once owned by Elmer - out of dozens. Double rifles are different anyway. By their very nature, DRs built for genuine royalty are a dime a dozen. I have one of those too, but the premium that usually brings won't buy much coffee. Even rifles from famous hunters like J. A. Hunter, John Taylor, and Denys Finch-Hatton haven't reliably brought much of a premium.
I always wonder what the problem is when I see a gun like this on an auction site. Doesn't make sense. If he really thinks that the gun is nice and that the provenance is worth a significant premium, he'd consign it with a dealer that knows how to get the most out of such a gun, instead of putting it up on an internet auction or "dragging it around to gun shows".
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
18 May 2007, 18:36
GeoffM24quote:
Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffM24:
I didn't want to out someone's find the first go around but since it closed $11,000 shy of the reserve I thought I'd ask some questions.
If it isn't worth $25,000, what is it worth? Seems like a gorgeous rifle. Is there something that I'm not seeing about this gun? Is it just overpriced?
Thanks!
Jeffery 450/400 double auction
It's just overpriced.
The guy obviously doesn't know how to market it. The photos are so bad that you can't even tell what grade it is. I'm guessing it's a number 2 grade. Without provenance, it's just another Jeffery .400 boxlock. Most are aware that Jeffery was strictly a retailer, and built no guns at all. Jeffery's best double rifles came from Harry Leonard in Birmingham, and the lesser quality guns from others. Impossible to tell from the photos, but the screw-grip fore-end fastener suggests that this is not a Leonard. Can't tell from the description what kind of condition it's in. In new, unfired condition, with a case in top shape, $25,000 might be realistic. In high original condition showing the signs of modest use, $18,500 would be in the ball park. I have a Leonard gun myself, with mint bores and prettier wood, that won't be for sale in my lifetime - unless some idiot offers me $25,000 for it.
Assuming that the Keith provenance can be proved, I'm not sure that's worth much of a premium. I'm one of Elmer's biggest fans, but it's just another DR once owned by Elmer - out of dozens. Double rifles are different anyway. By their very nature, DRs built for genuine royalty are a dime a dozen. I have one of those too, but the premium that usually brings won't buy much coffee. Even rifles from famous hunters like J. A. Hunter, John Taylor, and Denys Finch-Hatton haven't reliably brought much of a premium.
I always wonder what the problem is when I see a gun like this on an auction site. Doesn't make sense. If he really thinks that the gun is nice and that the provenance is worth a significant premium, he'd consign it with a dealer that knows how to get the most out of such a gun, instead of putting it up on an internet auction or "dragging it around to gun shows".
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
I have seen quite a few guns sell for big dollars on GB and AA, sometimes higher then what the premier dealers in those areas charge. Also those high end dealers take 15-20% and can sometimes take months to pay even after the rifle is sold. Same thing with the auction houses, they hit you 15-20% and then take their sweet time getting you a check.
So a dealer needs to get you $24,000 instead of $20,000 on GB just to be even and you get the money via GB far faster.
It wasn't so long ago that Champlin's sold J.A. Hunter's (one of a pair) .500 N.E. by Boss. I believe it went for $18k.
JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous.
It's only valuable if the buyer thinks it is worth the price. If the buyer won't pay the asking price, it's just another double rifle with a story.
Rusty
We Band of Brothers!
DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member
"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
18 May 2007, 19:32
400 Nitro Expressquote:
Originally posted by GeoffM24:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GeoffM24:
I have seen quite a few guns sell for big dollars on GB and AA, sometimes higher then what the premier dealers in those areas charge. Also those high end dealers take 15-20% and can sometimes take months to pay even after the rifle is sold. Same thing with the auction houses, they hit you 15-20% and then take their sweet time getting you a check.
Pure fantasy.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
19 May 2007, 07:19
GeoffM24quote:
Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffM24:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GeoffM24:
I have seen quite a few guns sell for big dollars on GB and AA, sometimes higher then what the premier dealers in those areas charge. Also those high end dealers take 15-20% and can sometimes take months to pay even after the rifle is sold. Same thing with the auction houses, they hit you 15-20% and then take their sweet time getting you a check.
Pure fantasy.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
$9,000 Colt Diamondback$4,200 Colt PythonThe auction boards are changing how guns change hands.
19 May 2007, 07:44
400 Nitro Expressquote:
Originally posted by GeoffM24:
quote:
Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffM24:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GeoffM24:
I have seen quite a few guns sell for big dollars on GB and AA, sometimes higher then what the premier dealers in those areas charge. Also those high end dealers take 15-20% and can sometimes take months to pay even after the rifle is sold. Same thing with the auction houses, they hit you 15-20% and then take their sweet time getting you a check.
Pure fantasy.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
$9,000 Colt Diamondback$4,200 Colt PythonThe auction boards are changing how guns change hands.
Yeah, right. Show me all the pristine double rifles with genuine historical provenance that have brought record prices in internet auctions.
Get a clue Geoff. In the DR world, that's where owners and dealers dump the buggered junk that they can't sell.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."