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.243 hornady 87 grain hpbt vs deer
27 November 2010, 18:44
craveman85.243 hornady 87 grain hpbt vs deer
my gun really likes the 87 grain hollow point boat tail made by hornady. this bullet used to be classified as a big game bullet but was switched to a varmint bullet a few years ago i believe. i figured id try it anyways. yesterday i shot a 140lb 3 point. the buck was 280 yards away. i shot through a rib and all the organs in the size of a volleyball were destroyed. the bullet fragmented but had a huge amount of damage. the meat on the other side wasnt damaged as the bullet never penetrated the rib cage. the deer dropped where it stood. personally im more of a fan of bullets that expend all of their energy inside the animal and dont exit. seems to be that most people are going for ones that poke a hole through both sides though. just thought id share my results. oh there was very little damage to the meat on the side where it was shot. maybe lost 2 inches around the hole.
if at first you dont succeed. blow it up.
27 November 2010, 20:23
metricOk, you had a lucky shot..
That bullet is for varmints, and varmints only.
Even our roe-deer(50Ib)here in norway deserves better bullets. What if you had to take a angle shot? What if the animal was at 30 yards?
The best bullets I use in my 243AI for roe-deer has been the 95BT and the 85XBT, The XBT goes straight through, expanding just a little, The BT gets bigger, but it holds up pretty good.
The Norma Oryx 100gr is probably a superb deer bullet, but I haven't tried it yet.
M
27 November 2010, 21:21
Fat_Albertmetric: I just checked around and you still have not publiched that list,so every one will know, of bullets that exceptable to uses on deer.
27 November 2010, 21:36
metricHello again, Albert
something called experience??? A hollow point boat tail bullet of 87 gr in 6mm is in general a bad big game bullet. Have shot one roedeer with the Sierra 85 hpbt, so I know how bad it can get..
Isn't this a forum to exchange subjective thaughts and meenings? Or do you need someone for a quarrel?
m
28 November 2010, 03:01
LWDI have been impressed with the performance of the Sierra 85 gr .243 HPBT on Texas deer. I've heard of people using the Hornady 87 grain with good results but have no personal experience with them. You might try the Sierra instead and see if your gun likes it.
LWD
28 November 2010, 03:55
Fat_Albertmetric: You came back with a "That bullet is for varmints, and varmints only" Not a "I would not uses it and this is why". I am sure there are more than a couple people here that uses them and think that you are full of Ludafish.
28 November 2010, 04:20
FinmanI'm one of them who thinks this is a load of Ludafish...I've shot two fallow and a roe deer with the 87gn HPBT out of my punny little 6mmBR. 160yd, 228yd and 98yd all DRT with nothing but solid performance from this little pill. It is my 'go-to' bullet when I am going after game with my BR, I use the VMax variety when after varmints. It may well be that the news of the 87gn HPBT is for varmints never reached our shores
Finman
better have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it....
28 November 2010, 04:24
MickinColoThere is only one hollow point bullet I’ve used on big game and it worked 4 out of 4 times but it’s not a 6mm and it wasn’t designed as an explosive varmint bullet. The 87-grain Hornady HP is really pushing the envelope as far as big game goes. Read the Hornady manual. Just because you got away with a clean kill doesn’t make it a good choice for big game.
28 November 2010, 05:43
RigbyUserStrangely I've had trouble getting this bullet to expand adequately on meat goats. Frustrated the heck out of me.
Zipped on through and allowed little goats to move around lots more than I would like. Changed to a 70 grain polymer tip at slightly higher velocity for more expansion.
I just wander how much there is to the rumour regards variability of performance on 6mm projectiles?
28 November 2010, 06:13
MickinColoquote:
I just wander how much there is to the rumour regards variability of performance on 6mm projectiles?
What cartridge are you using?
28 November 2010, 08:37
RigbyUserMickin..
I use a 243 Sako and generally get good results. Seems to do best with 100 grain Remington Core-Lokt on medium game. Doesn't seem to be as reliable with other bullets, although I haven't tried them all (obviously).
Have seen variable results with the same bullet in various loads and am just wandering if it becomes a fine line around the 6mm mark.
28 November 2010, 12:27
FinmanMickinColo,
I hardly regard fallow deer and roe deer as 'big game'. My buddies who also shoot 6mmBRs and 6mmPPC on deer take deer with alarming regularity with this bullet, so I don't think one could argue that 'I got away with it a couple of times'.
For the cartridge in question it is the only bullet with enough weight and speed to achieve the necessary energy limit required for hunting deer in the UK (1700ftlbs)
Each to their own I guess....
Finman
better have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it....
28 November 2010, 16:37
metricquote:
Originally posted by Fat_Albert:
metric: You came back with a "That bullet is for varmints, and varmints only" Not a "I would not uses it and this is why". I am sure there are more than a couple people here that uses them and think that you are full of Ludafish.
He-he
Ok, ok.. I was a bit bombastic, wasn't I? My experince tell me mY 243AI needs good bullets to kill Norwegian Roe-deer here at my place. But that's just me...
By the way; it's "LUTEFISK", made of dried Cod and NaOH. Excellent with our Aquavit and Norwegian beer.
Maybe you should come over here next November so we could hunt roedeer and have a nice meal of Lutefisk?
M
29 November 2010, 01:33
Fat_AlbertI will take you up on that hunt,send tickets. There is not enough Aquavit in the world to get me drunk enough to eat that fish again.
29 November 2010, 10:10
Bobby TomekMickinColo wrote: "Read the Hornady manual."
Perhaps he did -- and perhaps he saw that Hornady lists the bullets as a dual-purpose, varmints-to-medium game projectile.
Bobby
Μολὼν λαβέ
The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri
29 November 2010, 17:33
Fasteelquote:
Originally posted by metric:
quote:
Originally posted by Fat_Albert:
metric: You came back with a "That bullet is for varmints, and varmints only" Not a "I would not uses it and this is why". I am sure there are more than a couple people here that uses them and think that you are full of Ludafish.
Don't forget the Lephsa(sp), my granny was of Norwegian decent (Bakrud)I remember as a kid watching the women make that potato flat bread, used to have butter,turkey and cranberry rolled up with it. FS
He-he
Ok, ok.. I was a bit bombastic, wasn't I? My experince tell me mY 243AI needs good bullets to kill Norwegian Roe-deer here at my place. But that's just me...
By the way; it's "LUTEFISK", made of dried Cod and NaOH. Excellent with our Aquavit and Norwegian beer.
Maybe you should come over here next November so we could hunt roedeer and have a nice meal of Lutefisk?
M
29 November 2010, 21:14
1894mk2quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
MickinColo wrote: "Read the Hornady manual."
Perhaps he did -- and perhaps he saw that Hornady lists the bullets as a dual-purpose, varmints-to-medium game projectile.
Like I did - medium game capable
30 November 2010, 00:00
TEANCUMI've used Nosler 55 grain BT's out of a .243 at 4050 fps to take three average size mule deer bucks at ranges of 165,75, and 305 yards with a DRT performance. If the velocity is high enough with that 87 grain bullet and the accuracy is adequate, it should work out fine.
I just loaded up some 70 grain Nosler BT's for the .243 at 3,750 fps and am anxious to try them on long range coyotes and mule deer.
High Velocity can aid the performance tremendously of these calibers.
30 November 2010, 00:32
tiggertate[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fat_Albert:
I will take you up on that hunt,send tickets. There is not enough Aquavit in the world to get me drunk enough to eat that fish again.[/QUOTE
Roger, over and out. I'm not sure I trust the opinion of anyone that says lutefisk is good; regardless of the volume of alcohol involved.
Personally, I think it must be a genetic trait evolved from eons of eating rotten fish gathered during the incoming tide. Must have taken one sick dude to figure out how to do that on purpose.....
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
30 November 2010, 03:46
carpetman1To me 100 grain bullets are the ones for the .243. But seeing as how I use a .22 center fire with 55 grainers on deer I sure wont say an 87 is too light. In both I use the Winchester bulk packed which is comparable to a Rem Core lokt---placement is the concern---and it's the concern with big boomers too---I know you can miss by a couple yards with a big boomer--but they compensate--skin em too.
30 November 2010, 04:58
MickinColoSorry, I’m not trying to raise an issue here. Small hollow point ammunition that is designed for varmint use and big game use, seem to fall short in performance at one end of the scale or the other. Roe deer are hard animals to classify as “big game” but Mule Deer are big game. Coyotes and prairie dogs are Varmint animals. I expect a bullet to behave differently on dogs than on deer. If you can get a bullet to perform adequately on both it’s not a superior bullet for either.
30 November 2010, 05:32
AkshooterI have had great results on deer with my 243 and about 25 kills. I've used 100 gr. sierra's and 87 gr. Hornady's and I like the 87's much better.
I don't use the .243 anymore because where I hunt deer there are lots of big bears and it was just a matter of time before I had an issue with one, Actully I did'nt switch back to a bigger gun untill after my second bear incadent because I just like deer hunting with that .243.
DRSS
NRA life
AK Master Guide 124
30 November 2010, 06:37
Red C.I used to use the Speer 80 grain HotCore bullet and never lost a deer with it, but I read so many threads about 80 grains being too light that i switched to the Nosler 90 grain .243 and have had good success with it as well, but like I say, I never lost a deer with the 80 grainers.
Red C.
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
30 November 2010, 07:41
Captain Finlanderquote:
Originally posted by metric:
Ok, you had a lucky shot..
That bullet is for varmints, and varmints only.
Even our roe-deer(50Ib)here in norway deserves better bullets. What if you had to take a angle shot? What if the animal was at 30 yards?
The best bullets I use in my 243AI for roe-deer has been the 95BT and the 85XBT, The XBT goes straight through, expanding just a little, The BT gets bigger, but it holds up pretty good.
The Norma Oryx 100gr is probably a superb deer bullet, but I haven't tried it yet.
M
+1 on lucky shot. You can't count on any consistency with that bullet selection. Say you catch bone next time rather than cleanly pass between the ribs. This is what we are all talking about when we say the 243 is a marginal round at range, especially with that bullet. You clearly point out the minimal damage but are shallowly convinced that it works because of one success story. The devil is in the details and your description of the wound tells the whole story. You got lucky!
Captain Finlander
30 November 2010, 18:47
Bobby B.quote:
I just loaded up some 70 grain Nosler BT's for the .243 at 3,750 fps and am anxious to try them on long range coyotes and mule deer.
I've killed close to 20 game animals with the 6mm 70 grain Ballistic Tip at 3950 fps, mostly deer but maybe 1/2 dozen antelope. Some were very close and the furthest was a WT buck at around 450 yds. In my estimation, that load killed deer and antelope better than my 7 RM loaded with 150 BT. It also killed coyotes exceptionally well regardless of distance.
Bobby B.
30 November 2010, 22:24
TEANCUMquote:
Originally posted by Bobby B.:
quote:
I just loaded up some 70 grain Nosler BT's for the .243 at 3,750 fps and am anxious to try them on long range coyotes and mule deer.
I've killed close to 20 game animals with the 6mm 70 grain Ballistic Tip at 3950 fps, mostly deer but maybe 1/2 dozen antelope. Some were very close and the furthest was a WT buck at around 450 yds. In my estimation, that load killed deer and antelope better than my 7 RM loaded with 150 BT. It also killed coyotes exceptionally well regardless of distance.
Bobby B.
Bobby B.
Thanks for the input on your experience with those 70 grain NBT's. One of my hunting buddies uses that bullet all the time in his .243 for coyotes and deer and the guy is really deadly.
Are you using a 6mm with those 70 grainers to get to 3,950 fps? Or is this being done with a .243 using the 6mm (.243) bullets???
If this is out of a .243 I would be interested in your loading for this performance. Please PM me with the details.
01 December 2010, 05:17
MickinColoLOL. My question is: if the criteria for classifying a projectile as a varmint/deer bullet is the fact that it kills both? Than why is my 45/70 with a 475-grain bullet not a varmint/deer round? Just a question.
01 December 2010, 07:59
6.5BRI have killed deer w/70 TNTs in 243 and 6BR, 85 BTHP SGK in 243, 95 BTs/6BR, 100 PT/243, and a hog w/85 XBT./6BR, and 105 Amax/6BR - inc. ONE AT 400 yds - ranged.
While I will not condone picking 55-87 VARMINT bullets for deer, they can and are deadly, when placed in head/neck/broadside lungs.
I would use 85 BTHP and 87 BTHP/SP on deer in a pinch if picking broadside lung shots. They have and will kill fine, IME and IMHO.
That said, my FAVORITES in 6mm:
80 TTSX/85 TSX
95 BTs
90 Swift
When it comes to big game, ANY angle, shot distance, etc.
Shot placement is 90-95% of killing, as a marksman can thread any bullet of questionable integrity to the head/neck/broadside lungs on select shots, OR simply hold fire.
If you pick one of the 3 above I recommend, OR something proven similar in penetration/expansion properties, it gives one more latitude as to what shots can be taken in a pinch w/o delaying a shot and perhaps losing an opportunity all together in the field by game moving, or simply choosing to hold fire.
My .02 fwiw.
02 December 2010, 18:14
sbhooperFor some reason the Sierra 85 grain HP does real well on deer. I guess they lucked out and got that one right. If you are going to use light bullets on deer, at least go with the SP design in stead of the HP. I have killed antelope with the 87 grain Hndy and it worked real well for them, but I think the HPs are generally even more frangible.
03 December 2010, 07:28
6.5BRWord has it Sierra BEEFED up that 85 BTHP a good while back, and it's now better than ever on deer sized game. I would not be hesitant or scared to use one, but would not expect quite as much penetration as say a 95 BT or 100 gr.
The 85s often exit on broadside lung shots fwiw.
04 December 2010, 02:19
1894mk2quote:
Originally posted by 6.5BR:
Word has it Sierra BEEFED up that 85 BTHP a good while back, and it's now better than ever on deer sized game. I would not be hesitant or scared to use one, but would not expect quite as much penetration as say a 95 BT or 100 gr.
The 85s often exit on broadside lung shots fwiw.
The biggest problem I've had with a bullet on a deer was the 85gr BTHP that failed to expand much on a broadside fallow pricket at 100yards. Found alive 90minutes later, left overnight and dead the next morning. Neat hole through both lungs.
A 243 needs to expand well to be effective. Great round with the right bullet. Best not to try to make it a particularly deep penetrating cartridge for angled shots, moving deer etc. It exists for flat shooting broadside shots taken with care. A 90/95gr BT ups killing power by a considerable factor in my experience
04 December 2010, 21:14
6.5BRMy son put a grapefruit sized hole in the back of his first deer, around 300 paces, bone hit of course. His second deer around 275 was hit in the shoulder, looked like a 270 hit it literally, ALOT of damage.
That said, no doubt a small bore benefits more it seems w/a bullet that expands well, but not overly so.
04 December 2010, 21:42
PalidunI still own but seldom use my 6MM Remington anymore, not due to the rounds failure on deer but I feel it is out of it's league on the huge feral hogs on my deer lease and went to bigger guns. My favorite bullet for a long time was the 80 gr. Remington PSP. It held together pretty well and killed like lightning. I went to the 95 grl Ballistic Tips and found it the perfect deer bullet in this rifle. I also like the 100 gr. Solid based bullet also from Nosler.
05 December 2010, 11:01
seafire/B17Gquote:
Originally posted by 1894mk2:
quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
MickinColo wrote: "Read the Hornady manual."
Perhaps he did -- and perhaps he saw that Hornady lists the bullets as a dual-purpose, varmints-to-medium game projectile.
Like I did - medium game capable
amen...
like I verified with a couple of 243s....
bang flop...
05 December 2010, 20:51
MickinColoquote:
Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
quote:
Originally posted by 1894mk2:
quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
MickinColo wrote: "Read the Hornady manual."
Perhaps he did -- and perhaps he saw that Hornady lists the bullets as a dual-purpose, varmints-to-medium game projectile.
Like I did - medium game capable
amen...
like I verified with a couple of 243s....
bang flop...
I don’t know about your Hornady manual But on page 183 (243 Winchester page) of mine it states: “Hornady offers nine explosive varmint bullets for all phases of varminting, from the 58 grain V-MAX to the 87 grain BTHP or 87 grain V-MAX.” Beyond that it says nothing that would lead me to believe that the 87 grain BTHP is a deer bullet.
On page 190 (6mm Remington page) there is no mention of the 87 grain BTHP.
I really don’t care if the 87 grain BTHP is the greatest deer slayer on earth, that’s not the point. I scoff at the words varmint and deer being used in the same sentence. It’s not the fact that the bullet can kill deer and coyotes, if that’s the only criteria for calling a bullet a varmint/deer bullet then the 475 GC round nose bullets I use in my 45/70 Sharps are varmint/deer bullets too. It’s how it kills. If I’m shooting coyotes, and cats for their hides, I don’t want to see hardly any blood let alone a gaping exit wound that has to be sewn up. That’s the reason I own 17 caliber rifles. If I’m sitting on a prairie dog town for a day or two I want a cheaper bullet than that 87 grain BTHP.
05 December 2010, 21:07
MickinColoPS
By the time the information was up dated in the 7th edition Hornady manual the number of explosive bullets dropped to eight but the 87 hp is still listed as such.
07 December 2010, 04:46
MickinColoAre you sure you're not confusing Hornady's manual with the Barnes manual?
I’ll leave it lay, it doesn’t mean that much to me, but I’m starting to see why some people would get “tight jawed” about some people’s contributions around here.
07 December 2010, 07:38
6.5BRExperience varies. And I research alot - reading, and listening to results of others. An old Benchrest shooter from decades ago told me back in the 80s, listen to results, don't argue when something works.
There are certain bullets I use w/o reservation, w/o fear of penetrating to vitals regardless of angle. Other's I use more selective. They may not be my 'go to bullet' but I have done my own 'field research' to answer My questions.
Choosing where to steer a said bullet, understanding limitations/short comings if they have them, will compensate and quick ethical kills are still very doable.
If in doubt, yet what you have 'in chamber' is a border line bullet, try going for a lung shot broadside, or even a neck shot. Odds are it will be just fine and your deer will die in short order
But, I don't try busting shoulders w/any bullets as I don't want to bust up more meat than needed.
Just my .02.
08 December 2010, 05:32
QuintusI agree with Teancum 55 grain B-tips are about the quickest, neatest deaths you can give a deer, but I will limit that for myself to impact velocities below 3700fps. My second favorite 6mm is the Sierra 85hp. I have been killing deer with that bullet since 1991 and it has been as consistant as any bullet I have ever shot in any caliber, on deer and pigs.
And yess both work very well for varmints with a shade better trajectory than the 45/70 with a touch less recoil. Would anyone piss and moan about a 25-06 and a 100 tsx (hollow point) for deer? It is a top notch yote load you know. It's odd the folks that shot deer in the ass in the 60s with a .243 and lost the animal and now must fight the cause to mandate a big gun with a big bullet. Even non expanding bullets through the chest make it pretty tough to live past the 10 minute mark.
08 December 2010, 06:09
MickinColoquote:
Originally posted by Quintus:
I agree with Teancum 55 grain B-tips are about the quickest, neatest deaths you can give a deer, but I will limit that for myself to impact velocities below 3700fps. My second favorite 6mm is the Sierra 85hp. I have been killing deer with that bullet since 1991 and it has been as consistant as any bullet I have ever shot in any caliber, on deer and pigs.
And yess both work very well for varmints with a shade better trajectory than the 45/70 with a touch less recoil. Would anyone piss and moan about a 25-06 and a 100 tsx (hollow point) for deer? It is a top notch yote load you know. It's odd the folks that shot deer in the ass in the 60s with a .243 and lost the animal and now must fight the cause to mandate a big gun with a big bullet. Even non expanding bullets through the chest make it pretty tough to live past the 10 minute mark.
Don’t you kids have something better to do?
Like go outside and play? Anyone can be anything they want to be on the internet and you boys are very practiced at that.