the headings says it all, pros/cons?

The .243 has litle recoil and the .223 has even less...however I live in hog country so given only the choice of the two above I will go with the .243 with 90 grn. Nosler Bal.Tips over a stout load of I4350. But with cyotes or smaller the .223 is great takeing hog sightings out of my picture.

Steffen, I think that Ted is on the right track in that the size of your largest varmint and the cartridges capability at that level would determine the choice. However, if based on the ammunition and variety aspects, the .223 would be tough to beat. If you can, have both!

quote:

If you can, have both!

I think that if you did your homework you could find a great .243 or .223 to do the job for most varmints coyote and smaller out to 400 yards or more.

The choice was easy for me because I want to keep the pelts on the coyotes and fox I shoot. .223 w/40 gr. Hornady V-Max @3,300 fps. - no exit hole most of the time.

the idea of a 6mm is to use the same gun for varminting and smaller game and roe.
if i could talk the weapons office into letting me buy a rifle for varminting only, a .22-250 would be nice.

i will mostly use it for these:

and maybe a fox now and then.
i don't want anything smaller then .224"

223 then if you are using it on Crows and the like..

243 is better for larger varmints.. where high volume shooting isn't involved.. or you'll burn out a barrel quickly...

223 barrels easily are twice of what a 243 is, and more like 3 times depending on the type of power you use, and the rapidness of your shooting...

ok...let put it this way:

is a .243 impractical for shooting crow-sized varmints and a fox now and then?

Not a varminting cartridge expert by a long shot, but first off, I don't know anybody that classes a hog as a varmint. I didn't look though, and Ted might be from Texas, and everything is bigger down there.....

I will say that I don't think a 243 is impractical for crows and ocassional foxes, but a 223 is spot on for them.

A 223 is awful easy to get ammo for, not that a 243 isn't, but the options on 223 are really wide.

A 223 will kill roe deer as well as crows but the 22-250 would do a better job for the deer. There are some states here in the US that allow cartidges of that size as most have a .240 limit. My presonal opinion would be for a 6mm rem as it can also be down loaded to slower velocities.

Rad

For just varmint hunting, stay with the 223 - less barrel wear, less recoil, less expensive to shoot.

The .243 will be more effective than the .223 at longer ranges.

I wouldn't shoot a hog with either one of them, unless I had a clear shot through his ears. But then, you didn't say anything about hogs.

If you're shooting groundhogs and such where you may get 10-15 shots in a day, a .243 would work. If you're talking about Pdog shooting where you may shoot a couple of hundred rounds or more during a day, the recoil may get tiring.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
If you're talking about Pdog shooting where you may shoot a couple of hundred rounds or more during a day, the recoil may get tiring.

hundreds of shot at animals per day, are you serious?
it sounds like heaven.

if you are talking of planet earth, i would very much like to know where this shooting takes place, and does anybody arrange this kind of shooting?

i was more thinking of maximum 3-5 shots per day.

In prairie dog shooting, it isn't unusual to shoot over 1000 rounds in a long weekend of hunting. There is a lot of difference between a rifle for this and a coyote rifle. The .223 is a better PD rifle, the .243 in a lighter barreled rifle is better for coyotes and foxes, as you may get to carry it a lot more and shoot at some moving targets.

Steffen
The pD shooting is in South Dakota, Wyoming, etc. and you can shoot that many easily. would be a long trip from Norway however.

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
would be a long trip from Norway however.

to shoot thousand animals in less than a week would be an experience just as shooting a great trophy, so the distance wouldn't be the issue.

quote:

in a lighter barreled rifle is better for coyotes and foxes, as you may get to carry it a lot more and shoot at some moving targets.

this is exactly the type of rifle i'm looking for.

ACtually I have both a 223 and a 243 and like them both but am thinking of shooting in the wind in the southwest and cam considering getting a 25-06 for coyotes should the occasion arise...wind will blow you off course to easily...

Steffen,

For a deliberate trip to shoot prarie dogs, here's what some friends of mine and I do. We each take 2-3 guns, each gun is a long range rig, with long, heavy barrels, sitting in long, wide, heavy stocks chambered in various varmint calibers from 204, 223, 22-250, 243/6mm, and 6.5's. They wear high magnification optics in the 20 to 30 power range. These are NOT walking around guns and average 12 pounds (light) to 16 pounds (heavy).

If you get on to a large "town" of prarie dogs, you could easily shoot non-stop for hours in the morning, and again in the afternoon. I'm talking about sitting behind a rifle, and shooting from a bench for hours. You can take many, many shots in a row.

The reason we take multiple guns is to give each barrel time to cool down. If you sat behind one gun and tried to shoot it that many shots, you'd fire crack your barrel before you knew what happened.

Did I mention these guns are heavy? I shoot pd's with my "prarie dog guns", and coyotes with my "coyote gun". My coyote rig is a light weight .223 bolt Stevens 200. Accurate, light and cheap, best of both worlds.

Yes you can shoot prarie dogs with one gun, yes you can shoot prarie dogs with a light weight gun, but both those will limit your shooting time and distances you can shoot to.

Yes you can shoot coyotes with a "prarie dog gun", but I wouldn't want to carry one of those beasts around up and down hills all day while carrying my predetor stuff.

I think a light gun in .223 would do you well currently. If you can get over to a prarie dog shoot, there are guided pd shoots in some states, and I believe some guides may rent guns to shooters. I'm not sure, but you could ask around.

We take between 200-500 rounds of loaded ammo for each gun we bring, and we bring the reloading equipment and supplies with us. We shoot all day, and reload the empties at night.

I like the 223 for ground squirrels and other small varmints. I also use the 223 for coyotes out to 200 - 250 yards; for coyotes past that I prefer a 243. Lou

my vote goes 223, its the shooters ability that enhances or degrades the caliber choice.
regards

Either caliber would take what critters you want to shoot. Kind of expensive crow shooting with the 243 though. If you have a chance to hunt in other countries on the continent, you may want to check what calibers are allowed before deciding on a rifle. My choice would be the 223 for varmints and small deer, but if you get a chance at large stag, Elk or Moose a 6.5mm or larger would be a better choice.

Mike

.223 " Effective Range " 325 Yd. and under .243 Effective Range ?. Now how far can you shoot one off hand accurately ?. The sand bags and bench are back at the range not in the hunting field !.

Personally I see little disadvantage or advantage to either choice . I prefer the .223 because MY weapons are accurate comfortable to shoot and I don't own a .243 !. Nor do I want one . Some times bullet choices are as if not more important than the caliber as with placement of them .

Theres nothing wrong with the caliber , but there are much better choices IMO anyway !.
.284 comes to mind 100-180 slam what you need to .This is why multi calibers are available .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen-9.3:
ok...let put it this way:

is a .243 impractical for shooting crow-sized varmints and a fox now and then?

I think for the European hunter the 243 is the way to go.

Barrel life is not really an issue with 5 shots a day. Roe DEFINATELY fall down more convincingly, wind is less of an effect etc etc.

Load up the 85gr sierra BTHP and shoot away.

Steffen,

yes, 600 to as many as 1000 Prairie Dogs in three or four days. How hard would it be if you came to the American West, bought two rifles (.223s)and 1000 rounds of HP ammunition and two reasonable priced scopes, shot all the ammunition up in 3-5 days, and then tried to import the two rifles home with you? If that is a problem, put them up for sale here in the AR classifieds and have your host sell them and forward the $$$ to you at home. Several years ago I had two german friends I met at Schuetzen Matches do that with their rifles. They came every spring with their Schuetzen rifles, shot rockchucks here and prairie dogs in Montana for three weeks, and then attended a couple Schuetzenfest Regionals and the Nationals and took the Schuetzen rifles back home every fall. They would manage to shoot out the barrels, and then send them back to Savage for new ones before they left. There are a significant number of Japanese who take a week vacation in Seattle, where they business conference with Microsoft, and go shooting. For some reason they love M-16s and machine guns at the indoor ranges up there.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Steffen,

How hard would it be if you came to the American West, bought two rifles (.223s)and
1000 rounds of HP ammunition and two reasonable priced scopes, shot all the ammunition up in 3-5 days, and then tried to import the two rifles home with you?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

as long as i can get them out of the US, there shouldn't be a problem(maybe except importing two very similar guns).

another alternative is to buy a used rem 700 or similar, and just give it away afterwards.

this sounds like a great opertunity to buy a seal gun(vanguard sporter ss).


those numbers your are talking of, is just amazing.

243 is you have some desire to shoot 60, 65, 70 & 75 gr bullets at varmints.

Is the 243 impractical as a varmint cartridge? No, it is a supremely capable varminting round


I don't care for embracing the dilusional thinking behind fast twist barrels for the long heavy bullets in the 223Rem in the hopless attempt to turn it into a "long range" varminting rifle it is never going to be, atleast not compared to say... a 243 Winchester or 6mm Remington.

Anything a 223rem can do with a bullet heavier than 55gr a 243/6mm can do FAR better.

Don't get me wrong, my only centerfire 22 at this time is a
223Rem... and yeah, it's a 1:12" twist rifle that I feed a steady diet of 50gr ballistic tips.


I don't believe that a 223Rem will ever be a 400yard varmint cartridge regardless of twist rate or bullet weight.
The 243 already IS a 400+ yd varmint cartridge

Nobody really argues that the 243 is a an adequate cartridge for small deer.

Though I think there are far beter cartridges for a beginner to use on deer than a 243win.


AD

although i haven't shot varmints on an american scale, i'm with jstevens on this one.

one heavy .223(i'm thinking of a Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Special weighing 8.25lb) and a lighter, handier rifle in the 6-6.5mm area for larger varmints and smaller deer

.....................................


Steffen,

Many of us shoot a little low to try to get some serious air time when shooting pds.

Just another fun aspect of the sport.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen-9.3:

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
If you're talking about Pdog shooting where you may shoot a couple of hundred rounds or more during a day, the recoil may get tiring.

hundreds of shot at animals per day, are you serious?
it sounds like heaven.

if you are talking of planet earth, i would very much like to know where this shooting takes place, and does anybody arrange this kind of shooting?

i was more thinking of maximum 3-5 shots per day.

I know of several places in Montana alone that 800 rnds is about the norm. My grandfather guides pdog hunters around the Winnett-Lewistown-Winifred area. He can take them out and shoot 800 rnds without having to reposition. It is not unusual for me to take my .222 out on my other grandfather's ranch and shoot a couple hundred dogs in an afternoon.

As far as .223 vs. .243 goes, I prefer the .223. I like walking varminters over the big heavy barreled table shooting variety. That being said I also like being able to watch the fruits of my labors through the scope. I have found that this is not possible with a .243 in my preferred rifle setup.

I never had any trouble killing Mule Deer, whitetail, or pigs with the 223. I used the 60 gr. Hornady SP or HP, either one will give you perfect expansion..

That said I prefer the 6x45 over about any varmint cartridge..and its probably a little better deer round with a 75 gr. BarnesX or GS Customs bullet. It sure will kill a big hog in a hurry..

I never have been a fan of the .243 for deer or varmints, it's too big a case and we may shoot as many as 500 rounds a day on rockchucks, the .243 can get expensive pretty quick...

My .243 Ruger will outperform my .223 Stevens all day long at long ranges. I am fortunate that my Ruger .243 just loves Hornady 65 gr V-max bullets with the load I've worked up using Varget powder. I don't think you can work up a load for the .223 that will work as well for really long ranges, but that's just my opinion. I guess you can tell I love my .243

I only have two varmint guns. A 222 and a 6x45 but I have owned and shot most of them...settled on the above, and hey it just does not bother me to miss a varmint now and then!!

When we hunt rock chucks and pin heads in Idaho, we can shoot up a ton of ammo in a hurry, we usually take at least two rifles and ammo can get damned expensive in a hurry..The .223 with the cheap brass is the best route you can take IMO...

As to larger varmints the 223, 222, 6x45 all do a fine job of killing them even at extended ranges..

I have both a .223 and a .243 and find that the one I pull out to use is more determined by how I will be hunting than the caliber. If it's going to be a high volume shoot over bench bags I'll pull out the .223. If it's a walkabout with a lower volume shoot I pluck the .243. the .243 is lighter and better designed for a walkabout and the .223 is more of stationary shooter.

You cannot compare the .223 and the .243 to each other, the .243 is simply the more powerful and of course will kill bigger animals better, end of story.

I've been using 22-243 Midd and 6mm-284's for over 40 years, along with just about all the other sized 22 and 6mm cartridges at odd times and the 17 cals also.

For me it all depends on what range I expect to shoot. For the most part I take 3-5 rifles when I go out just to cover the spectrum.

At least a smallish 22 or 17 cal, something in the middle size and always one of the larger cased calibers for those long, long shots.

I've listened to all the arguments and whiskey talk for those many years. Mostly it depends on which caliber you happen to have in your rack or are in love with at the time, or just how much you realy understand about ballistics.

It doesn't take more than a passing look at the BC's of the bullets in the different calibers and the velocities obtainable to get an idea what the different bullets will do in given conditions and whether you are arguing apples and breadfruit.

I like my 17's either 17 HMR, 17 Mach IV, or 17 Rem from 100 to 250 yds. I really don't see much difference between the 17's and the slower 22 cals in that range. One has high velocity and lower BC and the other has a higher BC's and lower velocity...you want something to open your eyes??? Check out the drop and wind figures in any ballistics program and compare using equal bullet shapes...not comparing a flat nose to a spire point.

Out beyond 350-400 yards it is still high velocity that gets the job done...and having the highest BC you can get balancing bullet weight and velocity.

Of course if you REALLY want a long ranger you have to invest in a specialty tool and all the rest of the paraphenalia.

Otherwise..."which is best"...is just campfire whiskey talk. Very enjoyable at the end of the day when the warm glow starts to build in your belly and those long shots start getting longer and the wind gets heavier.

Besides why limit yourself...I've also been known to take my 338-06, 375 H&H, or 416 Taylor on varmint hunts to keep my eyes sharp and render reality to the day.

'Njoy

ok, i think i have made up my mind.

it will be used both as a stationary and walk-around gun, so lets keep the weight at 7-8lb (without scope).
the caliber will .243Win.

any recommondations on my first varmint rifle in the 500-600$ range(the only savage who is offered over here and is chambered in .243 and not too heavy is the 116 weather warrior, but maybe on the light side)?