New Wildcat? .25 WSM 50 Degree Shoulder

14 May 2002, 15:17

<Tunacan>

My gunsmith has been tinkering aroung with this load for awhile.

This is the .300 WSM case necked down to a .25 while the shoulder blown out to 50 degrees.

He said that he was getting .5" groups with 100 grain bullets @ 4000 FPS!!

Sorry I don't have more details.

This is not the actual case. This is a prototype.

The real case has a little longer neck.

I think that I know what I will build next-

[This message has been edited by Tunacan (edited 05-14-2002).]

15 May 2002, 02:31

<Bruce Gordon>

Good looking case you have there. The biggest hurdles to overcome would appear to be finding a suitable powder and bullets that will stand up to that velocity without coming apart.
Any ideas what powder is being tested?

15 May 2002, 10:14

<RAG>

I like it. I came to this board to specifically ask about anyone's experience with the 25 WSM.

Tunucan, who is your gunsmith?

I'd bet Reloader 22, or even R25 would be great in this cartridge with a 100 grain bullet. I've been getting 3,600 fps (24" barrel) out of a 25-06 Imp with 63 grain of R22. And on the Reloading pages of this site, under 25-300 Winchester Magnum, they get 3,813 with 73 grains of R22. So a stiff load of R22 should be able to give you 4000 fps in a 25 WSM "Improved."

To me, this cartridge would be the ideal deer or antelope cartridge. Yah, its' a barrel burner, but are you really going to shoot a deer rifle more than 500 times.

My friend has a 25-06 Improved that I load for him - it produces 3,600 fps with a 100 gain Barnes - X bullet with moderate pressure. And the recoil is much less than my .270. The terminal and trajectory results are incredible. Sighted in 1.5" high and assuming the scope height is 1.5" above the bore, this bullet is only 2.53" low at 300 yards and is still going 2,850 fps! Speed kills.

16 May 2002, 09:28

Stonecreek

I find 3600 out of a .25 bore using any form of the '06 case (in a reasonably normal length barrel) a trifle optimistic to accept without question. The .264 Winchester Magnum has to be taken to the high end of the acceptable pressure range to do 3600 with a 100 grain bullet in a 24" barrel. This is a bigger case and a bigger bore.

A .25 WSM, with a case somewhat larger than the '06 improved, MIGHT reach 3600 in a 26" barrel, with luck, but you'll be pushing the pressure envelope.

By the way, nothing you can do the the WSM case will allow it to equal the case capacity of the .300 Winchester, and despite all the new-gun-speak and unadulterated advertising hype, a smaller case cannot generate higher velocities than a larger case in the same bore without higher pressures, period.

17 May 2002, 05:54

<RAG>

Stonercreek - Just cause you don't like the hype surrounding the short magnums (I don't buy it either) doesn't mean have to doubt the results others have got. Do you also doubt the 3,547 achieved with 61.0 of N165 in the 25-284 listed here in the "Reloading Pages?" I got news for you, 25-06 Improved has significantly more case capacity than the 25-284. Or are you bummed because you couldn't get this velocity with a 25-284, so now your doubting the findings of others? Don't speak about what you don't know. Or do you have a 25-06 Imp? I think it's time you spend a little less time on the computer and get back out in the trenches.

17 May 2002, 10:31

<grkldoc>

Stonecreek is absolutely correct. Until you have done pressure testing you don't know really how hot the load is. I know that 3600 fps with a 100gr bullet out of a 30" barrel(25-06) is right around 65000psi. The extra 4 grains of powder in the improved isn't going to add that much. I am currently testing my own. I have built and tested a 6.5 WSM the maximum velocity for a 100gr bullet(65000psi) out of a 26.5" barrel is about 3600 fps. Now I could add 100-200fps by cranking it up to 75000psi and have done so.
The fact is that the 6.5 WSM closely parallels the 264 Win Mag with all bullet weights. Now a .257 barrel with a smaller cross section and same weight bullet would be a little slower. Anybody that cranks up the loads higher is fooling themselves and being dangerous. It took a catastrophic action failure and a peak strain meter to teach me this.

BE SAFE!!!

18 May 2002, 05:31

Stonecreek

Thanks, grlkdoc, you know of which you speak.

Somebody's always wanting to rewrite the laws of physics with a new shoulder angle, or a less tapered case, or a more tapered case, or by turning off the belt or some such other world-shaking modification to a cartridge case.

Larger capacity cases with larger bores will ALWAYS produce higher velocities and/or lower pressures with a given bullet weight than the smaller of each, assuming the barrels they use are substantially similar.

I don't doubt that someone shoved a bullet of some weight out the end of a barrel at some particular velocity. It could have even been done within acceptable pressure limits, since some individual barrels are "fast" and give much higher velocities than seemingly similar barrels.

But to claim that one can reasonbly expect to achieve higher velocities with a smaller case and smaller bore without higher pressures is nonsensical, and should it happen by chance on occasion, not recreatable in another gun.