Which single shot?

25 December 2001, 08:59

<Don Martin29>

The Ruger #1 has a cool falling block action and the other gun has a shotgun design. There is no comparison in desireability but that's my opinion.

Maybe break open action will be more accurate but if you free float the #1 as pointed out here it will be just fine.

I did not go back and read the other threads but once again the 26" bbls are heavy guns and a .270 or 06 could be had in a 22" #1. The 7mm Mag is not a big step up from either of those and at under 200 yards I bet the 06 has more killing power than the others on any game.

I have a 1A in 06 and a 1A in .300 Win Mag. I carry the 06 far more as it weighs less. I don't know that the 7mm Mag is that much of a long range hammer.

Buy the #1.

27 December 2001, 16:07

DannoBoone

I got a T/C 209x50 last spring. This smoke
pole barrel is awesome! Was able to attain
a one inch group at 100 yards - phenominal
for a ML. Then I got a 25/06 heavy barrel
for it - 6 1/2 groups at 200 yards. The
rifling in the barrel is so rough, it looks
as though the tooling should have been
pitched 10 barrels ago. Sent the thing back
to Thompson and it was returned, fired, dirty, without any explanation. My winter
project is to attempt to accurize it (long
story).

Spend a little more money and get the
Ruger.

----------------------

------------------
Married man can be one of
two things -- he can be
right, or he can be happy!

28 December 2001, 06:53

Paul H

If you like to play with a variety of calibers, you just can't beat the T/C system.

However, if you just want a single shot in a single caliber, hands down the #1 is the way to go.

28 December 2001, 06:57

<Don Martin29>

So where this leaves the buyer here depends upon what his battery is like. I don't mind a 8 lb rifle. I will carry one all day but somehow that 9 lb'r is heavy. So if I lived where animals the size of deer and black bear were the biggest I would choose a 30-06 or .270 with the 22" bbl. as my FIRST Ruger #1. But a 26" #1 in 7mm mag would be fine as a long range caliber. I take it back that it's not a long range hammer. It's quite a good cartridge. I shot the bbl out on one on my Ruger #1 !

[This message has been edited by Don Martin29 (edited 12-27-2001).]

28 December 2001, 16:46

<1_pointer>

Danno- That's what I've been told...the factory Encore rifle barrels aren't all that good. However, you can get custom barrels from Virgin Valley arms in Utah for $335 for up to 27"!!! They use Shilen barrels, but will use something else if you wish. Just some food for thought.

29 December 2001, 03:26

<hunting1>

I love my Encore! Looks wise I like the #1, but for feel and hunting I go with the T/C. The factory barrel is allright and the trigger is soso, but they feel like an extension of your body. I sold my bolt guns and only have the single shot now. Good shooting!

03 January 2002, 01:49

J.W. Blute

Short,
If you look around these boards you will see there are plenty of people that have had bad experiences with their Ruger #1. The bottom line is Ruger is a factory rifle manufacturer that competes on price and this is reflected in the hit and miss build quality on their products. (Ruger is not alone in this reguard) The advantage with the Encore is you can purchase the frame seperately for $270. Then, as stated above, you can purchase a custom barrel that is guaranteed 1 moa accurate for $335. (The same total price, or even less, as a Ruger)

No guess work. No screwing with the fore end screw pressure. No need to pray to the Ruger gods that you got a good barrel.

------------------
J.W.
Hero of the Hapless
Master of the Obvious

03 January 2002, 07:56

<Don Martin29>

If you look closer around "this board" you will find JW to be wrong.

Many early Ruger rifle bbls were defective. Some chambers were of poor quality and I even had one with the wrong twist.

But when Ruger started making their own bbls the quality became normal. Not to say that many of the old bbls were not OK and that there is not a bad new one around.

I would buy another Ruger #1 and look forward to a accurate rifle. My first one was a new 7mm Rem Mag that I got new in 1969. That rifle was good for 1.5 MOA but it stayed sighted in 100% all the time. That was worth way more than a group "in the .6's" like you read about.

I shot it so much and had so much fun with it that I wore the bbl out! Ruger no longer made the 7mm Mag in the 22" bbl like I had so I chose the 30-06 for a replacement bbl. The new bbl shoots into 1" at 100 yds hand held. I hold all of my hunting rifles on the forend with my hand and my wrist against the sand bag. The chamber is perfect and it shoots all loads that I have tried well.

The price of the new bbl a couple of years ago was only about $125.00! This is hard for even me to believe as thats a special bbl. That included all work except shipping.

I shoot my Ruger #1's a lot. I really enjoy them and am proud of them. My long range "hammer" is a 1A in .300 Win mag. It produces 1 MOA groups at full velocity, hand held. It stays sighted in which is a valuable attribute and I think due to the fact that all of my #1's are free floated and that there is a two piece stock.

Enjoy your #1. It's a modern classic.

04 January 2002, 01:56

J.W. Blute

Don Wrote:
"But when Ruger started making their own bbls the quality became normal. Not to say that many of the old bbls were not OK and that there is not a bad new one around."

I agree with Don on this point.

In fact that is my point.

IMHO
"Normal Ruger Quality" is a HAMMER FORGED barrel with a chamber that falls somewhere with in SAAMI specs. (And as Don points out, being mass produced there is no guarantee that there isn't a bad new one around)

This is O.K. for a factory barrel.
However, it is not even in the same league as a button rifled and air gauged shilen barrel that has a chamber cut to your specifications. (Guaranteed to shoot less than 1 MOA or your money back)

I will freely admit that I am not the end all Ruger #1 authority. But I have friends that own them and there have been plenty of articles written about them.

Based on the experiences of my friends and the articles I have read, I will say, "be prepared to mess with your Ruger #1 to get it to shoot good groups." Don mentioned that his #1's are free floated. Well....they don't come that way.
You need :
1. A competent gun smith to do the work or
2. need to be brave enough to tear into the project your self. (Remember, if you screw it up....It's yours)

Also, free floating is a good place to start to improve the accuracy of the #1 but it isn't a sure thing. (A hard lesson to learn after you have hacked material away from your new stock.....There is also a shimming method you might try first.)
I have friends that it didn't work for. What they needed was a specific amount of fore end pressure. (Which is not uncommon) In fact it is common enough that there are several products, such as the one found on the following link: http://www.answerrifles.com/accurizers.htm
Designed just to remedy this problem.

I know I sound like I'm bad mouthing the Ruger. I don't mean to, they are with out a doubt, beautiful guns. But they take extra time and money to end up with the product you want.
See also the following link:http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Forest/6059/rugerfaq.html

IMHO
I just think the Encore is an easier, cheaper, and guaranteed way to get where you want to go.
Plus, when you are ready to try another caliber, all you need to purchase is another $300 barrel Vs another $600 gun.

------------------
J.W.
Hero of the Hapless
Master of the Obvious

[This message has been edited by J.W. Blute (edited 01-04-2002).]

04 January 2002, 09:07

gophershooter

I have had a Ruger#1 in 280 for several years and it is very accurate but that was not always the case.From what I have read the two main reasons are the rib scope mount on the barrel as it heats, up some are so close to the receiver that they expand and push against the receiver causing the scope to change its zero.This can be corrected by relieving or removing some material from the rib at that point.That was not the problem with my#1, some one may have corrected that prior to my ownership.As long as I shot slow enough for the barrel to not heat up it was fine but if not it would string groups upward and to the left.I put a Hicks accurizer on it an it took care of the problem.I have also heard of placing a washer between the stock and barrel,which is essentially what the hicks does.

04 January 2002, 09:35

<Fish Springs>

I read many, many articles and e-articles on the grouping habits of Ruger #1's but decided the fine style, strength of the action and a short (overall length)26" barreled rifle were worth the "risk".

The resulting purchase: a #1B has only shot sub-minute of angle, symetric groups with both Hornady Light Mag and a couple of known-to-be-accurate '06 handloads. There has been no motivation to float the barrel, shim the fore-arm hardware or try the other "cures" suggested in the articles.

My Ruger #3, circa 1976, in .45/70 is another matter. The barrel band on this rifle is the enemy of accuracy. Loose or gone the rifle shoots fine. As tightened by the factory--12 GA Trap loads may produce better groups.

04 January 2002, 10:06

Santala

Go for the Ruger #1 and don't look back.

Steve

------------------
Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

04 January 2002, 10:55

<Don Martin29>

What an expert he is! He does not own a Ruger #1 but he knows "they need work"

To free float a Ruger #1 takes 5 minutes. It would take me longer to find the faucet washer than to whittle it down to fit.

You just put the washer between the hanger and the stock and it spaces the stock away from the bbl.

I have one of the first #1's its S/N 3XXX.

It always shot well, it stays sighted in. Now 32 years later it shoots even better.

Sure some custom bbl might be better but it may not be better. For sure a Encore will always be an Encore.

05 January 2002, 01:25

crowrifle

I own a Ruger #1 in 45-70 that will cut a clover leaf with Barnes bullets and a stiff load of 4198. It has not been modified in anyway. I also own a TC Contender carbine in .22 Hornet that will shoot half MOA if my game is on. This required a great deal of time and frustration to find a load that it loved. But that is a reflection upon the caliber not the rifle. I think both firearms were money well spent, and that I got exactly what I paid for. In 7 mm mag I would probably opt for the Ruger since it weighs a little more and has no external hammer to slow lock time.

05 January 2002, 23:25

<auto>

What's wrong with a Browning 1885? I have one in 22.250, and it shoots 3 shots at 100 yards and they all touch each other. I have done nothing to the rifle, except shoot it and clean it. I enjoy it's 28" barrel. It allows me to get more velocity. Comes with an adjustable trigger, and the empty shell will either eject right side, left side, or just sit in the action and wait for you to pick it up. Nice for re-loaders that way. I have killed ground squirrels out to 350 yards. I like the Rugers too.

06 January 2002, 03:38

<Don Martin29>

I have a couple of High Walls. They were always sought after. But I would not own that rifle because of who made it.

My first deer hunting rifle was a jap war prize. It was a 6.5 Ariska. But then I found out that the japs had killed my uncle. Now I know that the japs can't own firearms and they work to keep me from owning firearms.

That's more than enough information for a lifetime.

06 January 2002, 22:09

<auto>

Yes, and some of us had friends and relatives killed by the Germans also, but There are lots of folks buying up used Mausers. Even though the Japs lost the war, I see more Hondas and Toyotas around than Fords and Chevys. I think your reason for not buying a Browning is off base. Look around your house and tell me you don't buy Jap products. Sorry about your uncle. My Father served in the Pacific from 1942-1945.

09 January 2002, 05:05

<Paleohunter>

With Japan's gun laws being what they are how do they make guns for other companys?? Do they just build the componets(sp) and they are put together some place eles or are they made from start to finish in Japan. Imagine the security they mest have at the plants.
Oh by the way I bought a #1 in 270 last year and it has taken 5 deer so far damn fine gun for the money. I also have a Shilo Sharps 45-90 that is a very well made gun. Next one of these days I'll get a 1885 low wall in 22 Hornet. Do they still meke them??

14 January 2002, 07:32

Gambler

Short 308: I have both a Ruger#1, Ruger#3 and two Encores as well as Two Contenders. Just for information purposes they all require a little work to get them to shoot really well. The prettier of the two beyond a doubt is the Ruger. The most versatile of the two is the Encore. It is lighter to carry in the field. But is also harder to hold steady, especially in the wind. The Encore trigger can be adjusted relatively easy in an hour or so. Have not had to adjust or replace the triggers on the Rugers as they are both older models that came with decent triggers. The #1 serial number is also 3xxx bought in 1965. The best thing to do of course would be to fire both to see which one you like the best. Pay your money take your choice........Roy

15 January 2002, 17:31

DannoBoone

quote:
Originally posted by 1_pointer:
Danno- That's what I've been told...the factory Encore rifle barrels aren't all that good. However, you can get custom barrels from Virgin Valley arms in Utah for $335 for up to 27"!!! They use Shilen barrels, but will use something else if you wish. Just some food for thought.

1_pointer,

Haven't been in the forum for a few days.
Yes, I'm acquainted with VVCG. They're
making me a Tactical 20. Got a little hog
wild with the order, so everything amounted
to a bill & a half more than that, yet I
like their MOA guarantee much more than T/C's
"satisfaction guarantee" -- who's satisfaction?

The 25/06 barrel may still be salvageable.
Hand lapping has smoothed it up considerably.
Even with washers to temporarilly "float"
the barrel, one side of the forearm still
grips the barrel, even after considerable
sanding. Sooner or later, I'll get it as it
should have been when manufactured.

For the way it is made, the chamber was
reamed between .003-.004" too deep, there-
fore the cartridges need to be fire-formed
as though I had a wildcat.

As for the trigger -- it had a very creepy
3# pull. Through a new spring job and honing
parts, I changed that to a very crisp 1 1/2#
pull.

I could include other facts, such as some
very unsatisfactory correspondence with T/C,
the barrel being returned with no explanation
whatsoever, and other aggravating experiences
with the barrel itself, but this should get
the point across. And I have corresponded
with many others who have had similar
experiences lately with Thompson. They built
their reputation off the Contenders and
the 209x50 -- both overall very good products. Now, the devil may care. If you
want it to shoot accurately, YOU finish it!!

I reiterate -- get the Ruger.

------------------
Married man can be one of
two things -- he can be
right, or he can be happy!

16 March 2002, 16:55

<dave3220>

I have owned two T/C's.
The extractor bent in the rifle and the pistol actioned carbine would not hold hafl-cock within a hour after i reeived it.

I have had quite a few Ruger falling blocks and like them.
They can benefit from bedding the forend. (Brownells make a doodad for this, along with clear directions. This takes care of the tendancy to string vertically that some of them have.)

The lock-time can be measured with a calender.
This can be addressed with a Wolfe spring(ZBrownells again. Or direct from Wolfe), and boring lightening a hole in the hammer.
You will wind up with a noticeably faster hammer-fall and heavier primer strikes.
(If you doubt me on this, read Frank DeHaas.)
When I could still do fine work, I used to chuck all the bogus adj. screws out of the trigger, fille the sear to the correct angle and depth and install the correct trigger sear return spring to get the trigger pull I wanted.
This method stays within a ounce + or -, depending on bone-dry and dirty, or clean and freshly lubed, year after year.
Which is a good thing as I can no longer see well enough up close or have steady enough hands for this work anymore. (Plenty of good smiths CAN do this for you.)

Ruger's chambers are most all "generous" and are deeply throated.
I don't like factory chambers, or "saami spec.s". I have my own min. "field reamers made and to hell with saami and the horse they rode in on.
Get a seperate throater and seat deep.
As the throat burns out you can even it up and seat your bullets out a bit further.

If you do some of the above, your Ruger falling block will beat the best to come out of T/C's doors in every respect:reliability, accurascy(I know some T/C's are very accurate, but your re-worked Ruger will be just as accurate), durability.

Dave .32-20

------------------
Dave

17 March 2002, 00:34

montero

Blaser k-95, break open single shot is wiorth taking as loog at.
They are light, extremely accurate and barrels are interchangeable.
montero

17 March 2002, 02:53

Andre Mertens

I'll second Montero. The Blaser K95 shoots up a storm too. The only reproach towards it is cost (I'm saving, though...)

------------------
Andrï¿½

17 March 2002, 06:45

<Don Martin29>

Just my taste but I prefer a falling block action.

Is that Blazer receiver aluminum?

17 March 2002, 23:38

Andre Mertens

The K95 receiver is alu but its only role is to keep components together, no more. In addition to conventional hooks (cf. nr. 11 in pic)and horizontal bolt, lock up is perfected via a vertical sliding block (cf. nr. 3) that locks in the rear of the barrel. A most efficient and strong proprietary feature.
[img]The K95 receiver is alu but its only role is to keep components together, no more. In addition to conventional hooks and horizontal bolt, lock up is perfected via a (ascending) sliding block (cf. nr. 3 in pic) that locks in the rear of the barrel. A most efficient and strong proprietary feature.

------------------
Andrï¿½

[This message has been edited by Andrï¿½ Mertens (edited 03-17-2002).]

18 March 2002, 03:18

<grkldoc>

T/C encore rifles are very handy a little lighter. Factory barrels are notorious for not shooting well no matter what you do. So don't bother with the factory barrel. Just get a custom barrel and buy the frame separately. I would not recomend an overbore wildcat. The frame can only take so much then it flexes giving you a dynamic headspace. Trust me I managed to blow one up. I would rather no one else go through that.

18 March 2002, 04:53

<Don Martin29>

Well I still prefer the motion of a falling block action. I shoot my rifles from the marksman positions with a sling and also from a bench and the shotgun type actions are not handy.

The Ruger is the best out there for me. I have Winchester High Walls, Remington Hepburns, Sauer Drilling and Stevens Favorites. I have had Ballards, top break rifles like the Blaser, rolling blocks and of course single shot bolts.

But the Ruger #1 could be a lot better. As a big game rifle the 22" configurations are way too heavy. A ligher barrel would be where to start. Also the butt stocks on the #1's cry out for a cheekpiece. The Blaser has a cheekpiece but the drop at the heel is going the wrong way or so it seems in the picture. Also on the 26" bbl #1's the butt stock is much thicker and this makes the comb too thick with the standard size scope mounts. The lock time on the #1's is way too slow. A lighter hammer and stronger spring is needed.

I don't know the price of the Blaser but I recall that it's very high.

There is the Browning SS's also but they are made in Japan.

18 March 2002, 06:06

Andre Mertens

The K 95 starts at 2.380 ï¿½ (std. grade) and goes up to 8.379 ï¿½ (Baronesse presentation grade). If I had my choice, I'd go for the Luxus, octogonal barrel at 3.629 ï¿½.

------------------
Andrï¿½

19 March 2002, 08:16

<eldeguello>

The TC is sure ugly, although it may shoot as well as a No.1, I don't know. I too have heard that there are inaccurate No. 1's, but I have never seen one. A No.1 7mm rem Mag I have is a consitent half-minute rifle. It shoots 1" groups at 200 yards. I also have a 1A 7X57mm, which is almost, but not quite, this good. I have a No. 1 .375 H&H Mag. that shoots 2" groups at 150 yards, and a .45/70 which will shoot 1" @ 100 meters. Also have a No. 3 .30/40 which is a minute-of-angle shooter. I say, get a Dakota SS if you can afford it, but get a No. 1 if you are a poor feller like me. You won't be disappointed.

05 May 2002, 22:14

mehulkamdar

Just to digress on Japanese gun laws - shooters in that country have to apply for a gun license and wait 10 years before they are allowed to buy a gun. Japan is also a sponsor of numerous anti-gun initiatives at the United Nations. If the Japanese government had it's way (and I think the Brits are increasingly going that way) no one in the world would be able to even touch a gun unless they joined the army.

------------------
Mehul Kamdar

06 May 2002, 07:06

<Don Martin29>

Mehul Kamdar,

You picked up on my point about the Japanese and gun laws. The Japanese also sponsor anti-gun activities here in the USA directly.

Therefore I will not own or praise a Japanese made gun. Some of my friends own them. One is a M-52 Sporter and it's just what I would want. I tried to get a 52 sporter made from a 52 C years ago but I gave up on it as my gunsmith passed away.

The other friend has a nice OU made in Japan. I don't say anything to them as I want to keep my friends but I might make a subtle hint.

As for myself there is no way I will buy a Japanese made gun. This issue is very important to me and I take action.

06 May 2002, 15:51

outlawsix

Have a #1-B in 257 Rbts that will shoot handloads into 3/4" @ 100yds. Also have a Encore SS with 3 barrels. 45-70 govt,22-250 Ack,and 7mmSTW. All barrels are from VVCG. the 22-250 Ack will put 10 shots into 1/2" @ 100 yds. The 7mm STW will put 3 shots of the Win. BLST factory stuf into 1/2" @ 100yds. Having both I can say that the ruger has more of a tradditional look while the Encore is more adaptive. It really depends on which one feels good in your hands. To me I prefer the Encore it is way more useful just buy a barrel and change the calliber. Granted I don't shoot factory barrels heard way to many negative things about their accuracy. The custom barrels will cost more but you will end up getting a higher grade of product. One last thing if you like the thumbhole look get an Encore Boyds Stocks is coming out with a thumbhole version that will knock your socks off. Can't put one on a ruger without a lot of hassel and money. I'm the one who wrote into ST with my christmas wish being for Boyds to introduce it and it came true. Now if Win. will only come out with that 257WSM.

07 May 2002, 04:11

aladin

quote:
Originally posted by J.W. Blute:
Don Wrote:
"But when Ruger started making their own bbls the quality became normal. Not to say that many of the old bbls were not OK and that there is not a bad new one around."
I agree with Don on this point.
In fact that is my point.
IMHO
"Normal Ruger Quality" is a HAMMER FORGED barrel with a chamber that falls somewhere with in SAAMI specs. (And as Don points out, being mass produced there is no guarantee that there isn't a bad new one around)
This is O.K. for a factory barrel.
However, it is not even in the same league as a button rifled and air gauged shilen barrel that has a chamber cut to your specifications. (Guaranteed to shoot less than 1 MOA or your money back)
I will freely admit that I am not the end all Ruger #1 authority. But I have friends that own them and there have been plenty of articles written about them.
Based on the experiences of my friends and the articles I have read, I will say, "be prepared to mess with your Ruger #1 to get it to shoot good groups." Don mentioned that his #1's are free floated. Well....they don't come that way.
You need :
1. A competent gun smith to do the work or
2. need to be brave enough to tear into the project your self. (Remember, if you screw it up....It's yours)
Also, free floating is a good place to start to improve the accuracy of the #1 but it isn't a sure thing. (A hard lesson to learn after you have hacked material away from your new stock.....There is also a shimming method you might try first.)
I have friends that it didn't work for. What they needed was a specific amount of fore end pressure. (Which is not uncommon) In fact it is common enough that there are several products, such as the one found on the following link: http://www.answerrifles.com/accurizers.htm
Designed just to remedy this problem.
I know I sound like I'm bad mouthing the Ruger. I don't mean to, they are with out a doubt, beautiful guns. But they take extra time and money to end up with the product you want.
See also the following link:http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Forest/6059/rugerfaq.html
IMHO
I just think the Encore is an easier, cheaper, and guaranteed way to get where you want to go.
Plus, when you are ready to try another caliber, all you need to purchase is another $300 barrel Vs another $600 gun.

Good post JW. If you could turn the clocks back 150 yrs and still had the #1 around, that's what the gunrunners woulld be selling to the natives.